VS Blog: John Doe vs Herobrine (Creepypasta)

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“If you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.” — Friedrich Nietzsche


John Doe, the Roblox legend of March 18th.


Herobrine, the frightening white eyes behind Minecraft’s fog.


In the corner of your eye, you might witness these horrifying monsters staring at you. Whether you’re playing on Roblox and see an ominously-named account in your player list, or you witness these terrifying blank eyes staring at you in the corner of a cave in Minecraft, many myths and legends have came from these two icons of video game horror stories. 


These two are some of the greatest gaming communities in internet history, and they’ll put computer code at stake when they begin to fight. So, between these two game-manipulating player-stalking urban legends, who would win? Will John Doe take another account away from the hands of this entity on his site-destroying campaign, or will Herobrine witness the deletion of another world when the second Roblox user finds themselves too scared to face him another day? We’ll find out today on Valve’s Versus!

Before We Begin…

One thing you might know about either character is that they simply do not have reliable canons; For this reason, we’ll have to make a pretty stiff alignment of referenced media, as to make the most concise list of media without stretching too far into giving just any content to either.


For John Doe, as the thumbnail might suggest, we felt like it would be best to tackle Forsaken’s John Doe interpretation. Not only is this currently the most notable and important form of John Doe in the Roblox community, but also allows us to tackle every part of the John Doe urban legend with a form of a story. This will include scaling present in Forsaken as well as other media present in the game, such as the original Survive and Kill the Killers in Area 51, Sword Fight on the Heights, Sonic.EXE: The Disaster, and Work at a Pizza Place. We’ll also draw scaling from The Last Guest, and the rest of ObliviousHD’s extended universe. Granted Forsaken’s inspiration, as well as other extended media, we’ve decided to also draw from the original John Doe exploit script’s powers and abilities, as well as Robloxia: Until Dawn and Midnight Horrors. These were pretty much done for funsies, but also because they’re major parts as to what developed John Doe’s Forsaken appearance and have been blatantly referenced as a part of his story (granted the Script Builder skin and all). As for Robloxia: Until Dawn and Midnight Horrors, it is very much intertwined to that original script, and are games that exists pretty much side-by-side with Forsaken in their genres. 


On the other hand, Herobrine will be a much more complicated case. Herobrine doesn’t have a canon that we can easily reference, as he is entirely public domain– however we believe that the best way is to focus on the most popular and notable iterations of Herobrine. For starters, we’ll be referencing the original Creepypasta, including White Eyes and the original 4chan story. While White Eyes isn’t necessarily a story about Herobrine, the general concept of Herobrine draws its entire concept from this vague story, so it makes sense to look at for some history. In addition, we’ll be referencing the first iterations of Herobrine’s popularity in the community, which includes streams done by Copeland of Brocraft, as well as his fellow Brocraft members. We’ll also include the iLoveYou plug-in (Herobrine’s first mod) as well as media from the creator tkelly’s channel, and the more popular “official” Herobrine mod: these mods are huge landmarks in Herobrine’s history and intentionally mimic aspects of the original Creepypasta as a result, as well as the mods that effectively built the foundation for all Herobrine mods afterwards. Like with John Doe, we’ll also reference one of the most modern iterations of Herobrine’s story, From the Fog, mostly because it’s treated generally in the community as the republished mod, as well as the fact that it’s really cool. In this regard, we’ll also be using The End of Herobrine, as this mod is very much intertwined with Into The Fog. Most YouTubers also generally use these modpacks in tandem in their series, so we believe that it should be well-received enough. All in all, while it’s basically impossible to say what we should stick to, we really wanted to stick to the grounds of the original Herobrine creepypasta and the biggest additions that the community has brought to his story. For that reason, we’ve ultimately decided not to touch on too many non-linear mods or stories that branch away from the OG Creepypasta, so unfortunately we won’t be bringing up Take Back the Night or the various Minecraft parody music videos that Herobrine fights in. We believe this is probably the best way to tackle Herobrine in a blog, like most other Creepypasta icons, especially since he’s a part of the public domain and all.

Background

John Doe

“They’re all yours, Mr. Doe.”


When Roblox was first created, there was one user. Then, another. And finally, a third user. One was Roblox. One was Mr. Doe. And the other was Ms. Doe. And everything was happy. His wife and him were married and living in peace. However, that happiness didn’t last. They would both be discovered by a mysterious entity known as The Spectre. Their peaceful tranquility was ended when they were both sent to damnation, to participate in The Spectre’s games.


While Ms. Doe’s whereabouts in damnation are currently unknown, Mr. Doe has become a literal shell of his former self. He is now a borderline mindless husk. The defunct code from the early days of Roblox courses through his body, corrupting his mind and making him into a killing machine. He has nothing on his mind but murder now. He doesn’t even recognize his own partner anymore. Becoming a pawn of The Spectre, John Doe would be rumored to hack and destroy Roblox on March 18th. And, while this urban legend never happened on a major scale, the lingering threat of his existence would not be forgotten. Those trapped in damnation know his name, and the legend of Mr. Doe will never be forgotten.

Herobrine

onlygodcansaveyounow


Herobrine is a name that sends chills down every Minecraft player’s spine. Those two white eyes that you might occasionally see stalking you from the corner of your world, always watching, and always waiting. Although Herobrine was rumored to once be the haunting ghost of a Swedish gamer, he is far more than just a spirit in your game. He is a stalker, an entity that you may witness in your world, constantly changing your world with his creations. As for why he does this, the idea shifts between many: he might be a force of nature who wants to scare you, or he might just want you to leave his world. No matter what you think he’s there for, one thing is for certain. You must stay cautious when he warns you, or you might lose your world permanently… potentially even because of your own fears.


For players brave enough to challenge this being, though, it is possible to bring Herobrine to a mortal form in your world. If you are prepared enough for such a challenge, by creating the Blackstone Totem, you can summon Herobrine into his physical prime. While this fight would be the most dangerous challenge for you to face, it would all be worth it to put an end to this entity’s destruction. After activating the Totem with the usage of a Nether Star, it will forcefully bring Herobrine to this plane of existence, allowing one to take him on. In a long-winded fight, you might find yourself successful, leading to his death and ultimate freedom, allowing Herobrine to be killed once and for all. You might even hang his head up on the front of your house… but are you sure Herobrine is truly gone? You’ll always make sure to look out in the distance, at the constant threat of him watching you. While Herobrine might have died, the anxiety that he might come back like every other time will never go away.

Experience & Skill

John Doe

John Doe is very simply a legendary Roblox hacker who has taken several tons of accounts through very often acts of deception and manipulation. While he was thereafter taken out by Roblox, his absorption of the Roblox code has made him a very capable and dangerous combatant. He solely acts off of his inhibition and rage, however, so he’s certainly not a combatant who’s applying skillful maneuvers to attacks. This doesn’t mean he isn’t smart, though, as John Doe’s main gimmick in Forsaken is still about strategy– placing traps, looping around enemies to maximize damage, and blocking off exits with his walls. In fact, John Doe is arguably the most technical killer in Forsaken. 

Herobrine

Herobrine is a spirit who has haunted the games of players for over ten years, so he’s rightfully experienced as a stalker. While Herobrine does not outright fight players consistently, he has shown to be quite skilled in deception and manipulation, often haunting players into world deletion. In regards to direct combat feats, however, Herobrine has shown to be quite the novice– which makes sense, as he usually runs towards you and hits you, or otherwise replicates the attack patterns of the mindless Wither in combat. He shouldn’t be slept on, as you should always keep your eye out for him, but he might struggle when you put him up against someone equally as formidable… like the player! 

Abilities

John Doe

Robloxian Physiology

As his existence should imply, John Doe is a Robloxian. These are the denizens you might see in Roblox, often occupying many games in this world who are all capable of naturally coming back with methods of respawning (which John Doe can do, but more on that down the line). After all, they’re just game characters! What sets John Doe apart from other Robloxians– who are very often just your average person physically beyond the lack of normal human needs– is that he is far, far more than just a regular person.

Code Corruption

John Doe absorbed the entirety of Roblox’s old code, allowing him to become physically greater in power than ever before. This has given him the ability to affect the very structure of your game, and by extension, reality itself. He can produce walls of spikes, create coded traps, alter himself physically, and become more beefier. One of the biggest side effects of John Doe’s absorption of the code is that he is always passively exuding an aura of broken code that corrupts other beings, corrupting them with the same code for three seconds. This causes those affected to constantly take damage, which will be amplified the more damage that John Doe deals to them. However, despite being quite a powerful tool that can damage anyone, it cannot outright kill targets unless John Doe is able to land that final killing blow needed. However, John Doe also retains the subsequent physiologies that a Robloxian would have despite his new form, such as being able to come back from dying (in fact, kinda the whole thing about this ability, but more on that later). 


This code is even potent enough to fully takeover the bodies of others, much like John Doe himself. It is unknown how it does this, but those corrupted gain the same abilities as John Doe. It’ll even change their physical features to match the blank slate that Doe is. Furthermore, the code can spread across his body until his entire body becomes this corrupt code.

Corrupt Energy

John Doe is able to manipulate dense points of energy that he primarily uses to form spikes in the ground to target enemies. Using this ability allows him to send a row of twenty six spikes in any direction he wants– travelling through walls and players– which he can use to close off routes or hit an enemy directly. Upon hitting an enemy, John Doe is granted a speed boost allowing him to close the gap onto a survivor and kill them. Alternatively, John Doe can place down traps made of this energy. John Doe isn’t just limited to lines of spikes, though, as he can also impale you with these spikes to kill you instantly, in turn erasing you from reality.

Digital Footprint

John Doe can stomp the ground three times to create corrupted footprints on the ground. He can have multiple of these up at once and they dissipate after 165 seconds have passed. These traps induce Slowness for fifteen seconds, as well as reveal a target’s aura for a limited time. They also give John Doe himself a 10% speed increase. They cannot be destroyed without an entity walking through them or 165 seconds pass.

Aura Reading

Through the usage of 404 Error, John Doe can reveal the locations of every survivor on the map. This is particularly useful when he can’t locate enemies, as it’ll give him the ability to read anyone’s aura present. In TR:UD, by screaming, John Doe can reveal the aura of every survivor as well.

Rage Boost

If you’ve really ticked off the guy, he’ll be able to scream really loud. In turn, he’ll be granted a massive speed boost allowing him to catch any survivor he needs to. This, however, requires a minute cooldown even at the beginning of the game, making it only useful in a long match. 


However, in Forsaken, this ability comes in the form of his Unstoppable passive. Which gives him Speed 1 (a 10% speed boost) everytime he gets stunned or when someone is hit by Corrupt Energy.

Will of Revenge

In TR:UD, by using Will of Revenge, John Doe exudes all of his aura into a mighty burst. This leads into a huge attack that jumpscares nearby survivors and blinds them for three seconds. 

Lightning Strikes

John Doe can call down lightning strikes to chase players. Pretty simple enough! 

Meteor Strikes

John Doe can also call down meteors to strike down on players, just because he feels like it.

Teleportation

By enveloping all players in his power, he is able to swap around every player’s location alongside his own. This can lead to some pretty nasty predicaments, or allow John Doe to find his way back to more bunched up groups of survivors.


John Doe is also able to perform short-term teleportation in front of him and to wherever the cursor is placed, making sure he can find any victim even if they run away.

Existence Erasure

Just by stabbing someone, he can entirely fuse them with his code, instantly obliterating them and turning them into nothing. John Doe can also click on players in order to imbue them with the same flaming code, applying the same effect where they burn to death and then subsequently get banished to the Shadow Realm. This is additionally present in Midnight Horrors, where enemies will fade into binary code after being instantly killed by John Doe.


BADCHOICE

If John Doe is to ever die, even willingly, the entire population of the Roblox game he’s present in will be instantly killed and the entire world will be altered. Talk about a bad choice, huh? From here, John Doe will respawn, making it impossible for other Robloxians to kill him without bringing an end to themselves if they ever want to be brave enough to challenge the hacker.

Herobrine

Spiritual Physiology

Herobrine in short is an entity of an incomprehensible physiology. Many legends claim that he’s the deceased brother of Notch, haunting internet forums. He exists across the internet, deleting many threads– such as the first one to claim his existence– and has invaded many player’s worlds, such as Copeland. Herobrine, as an entity, is not considered a player nor a being, rather a spirit with its own personality. It isn’t a being created by code, granted many of his structures are simply too… human. Sand pyramids, redstone torch tunnels, and many others. 


This makes Herobrine much more special than any other player, as he’s not put under the umbrella of being one and thus cannot be targeted by player-specific commands. Herobrine, as a spirit, can also attack you while invisible, although he much prefers direct combat. In regards to direct combat, while Herobrine is seemingly a curse on your world, he mainly finds his way into your world with the creation of his Totem. In certain iterations of Herobrine, destroying that Totem can free your world and regress his powers. On the other hand, that Totem simply empowers Herobrine and taking him on with that Totem active means you have the means to shut his power down for just a while.

Flight

Herobrine can be very often seen simply floating in the air. In the “Official Herobrine Mod”, a verison of Herobrine mimics all of the behaviors of the Wither, including flight. In “The End of Herobrine”, he can also naturally fly when fighting the player.

Teleportation

Herobrine is able to teleport behind the player, as well as disappear from one’s sight entirely. He can usually disappear at will, and many of the stories revolving around Herobrine talk about how he’ll teleport and stalk them throughout their worlds, reappearing whenever he wants. However, Herobrine isn’t just limited to teleportating himself, as he can also teleport you to him. If you defeat his half-mortal form, he’ll also disappear, although seemingly unwillingly. 

Block Manipulation

Herobrine is able to replace and destroy blocks suddenly, such as likely being responsible for replacing chests with TNT as caused by an addon on tkelly’s computer. He can also create tunnels and instantly destroy them leaving nothing remain. He’s also able to shift Lanterns into Soul Lanterns and Torches into Redstone Torches or turn dirt into glass, just to scare you. Although sources are entirely missing, Spoutcraft also seemed to have used a similar plugin around the time of ILoveYou that surrounded players in cobblestone. This isn’t all that Herobrine is able to do, though, as he can also entirely remove your inventory after hitting you. It will, however, eventually return back in their hands.

Causality Manipulation

Although Herobrine does not retain this ability by himself, legends claim that Herobrine is able to freely manipulate commands and the game’s code itself. This would mean he has powers relative to other addons present on tkelly’s computer, including the Big Brother plugin that can entirely rollback another person’s actions while watching them. 

Tick Rate Manipulation

Herobrine can seemingly amplify the tick rate on enemies, speeding up mobs when they attack the player.

Blindness Inducement

Herobrine can induce blindness, entirely obscuring one’s vision to appear behind them suddenly. He can do this in quick shots, as shown above, casting everything in darkness to the player. This is primarily notable, as all of Herobrine’s attacks (often in teleporting bursts when you stare at him) in his non-physical state induce this effect for a moment after he hits you.

Duplication

In the “Official Herobrine Mod”, Herobrine can appear multiple times at once to attack the player.

Mind Control

Also from the “Official Herobrine Mod”, Herobrine can possess pigs in order to command them to attack the player. This can also take over nearby animals such as cows, although it doesn’t make them hostile. Herobrine can also cause you to drop all your weapons on accident.


 In “The End of Herobrine”, Herobrine can possess a variety of different mobs (seen above) who will either attack the player willingly or will act passively towards the player unless they incite combat, where they will relentlessly and endlessly pursue them… mindlessly.

Summoning

Herobrine is also able to spawn chickens and villagers to attack the player. In the original video, it seems to be shown that Herobrine can summon Creepers in his fleeing movement. 

Elemental Attacks

Herobrine can seemingly produce lightning that can hit the player. He can also produce random flames and set your house on fire sometimes. He can also suffocate players by filling rooms with stone if they encounter him in an enclosed space.

Telekinesis

Herobrine can move doors. That’s about it.


Although this could be considered a different sort of ability, Herobrine can also deal damage to the player without being present.

Equipment

John Doe

Erm. He had some pretty cool limiteds before…

Herobrine

Herobrine Pillar

Although these pillars are not necessarily created by Herobrine– usually depending on the iteration– often, they are very integral to his existence in our world. Within the bounds of the “Official Herobrine Mod”, these pillars are the conduit for allowing Herobrine to interact directly with the player and harm them. However, within the End of Herobrine, these Totems actually give Herobrine a physical form so that he can fight in the first place, with the Blackstone Totem giving him a mortal form (albeit his physical prime) you can take him on in. Regardless, destroying this totem causes his physical form to simply break down and revert him back to being a stalker who can only attack through mob possession. 

Pickaxe

While Herobrine might usually fight bare-handed, he isn’t afraid to use a weapon. One of the weapons he’s seen using is often a variation of the Pickaxe, either in a golden or diamond variety.

Redstone Torches

Herobrine is very often shown placing down Redstone Torches as he walks or digs underground. It’s not known why he even prefers these because they just give off so much less light, but maybe he’s sensitive.

Pot of Greed

He can summon three additional cards from his deck.

Forms

John Doe

March 18th

On March 18th, John Doe obtains the power to destroy all of Roblox. This form amplifies his strength and durability by a ridiculous amount, increasing his durability by 2121.35x and increasing his strength by 1.5x. Most of his kit is generally amplified, including the ability to summon over two hundred of his spikes at once or being able to place additional traps. He also is much faster with this buff.


Do note that while his actual physical durability is unchanged, the amount of damage he can take is increased substantially. We quantify this as enhanced durability.

Herobrine

Boss-Brine

In the “Official Herobrine Mod”, Herobrine sorta just… can be the Wither. He can shoot out decaying skulls which blow up the land and has the ability to fly around. Not much to it beyond that besides an obvious physical stat boost.

Mortal Form

Herobrine’s strongest form and his “prime” as of the End of Herobrine, this form gives Herobrine the ability to take a physical form rather than solely spiritual existence. Although he can possess beings in his non-physical form, he loses this once he gains this physical form, and becomes a powerhouse who can now physically take on the player. This form is quite similar to “Boss-Brine”, as he shoots out Wither Skulls and destroy nearby blocks, but has permanently lost his flight in this form as a result of becoming a mortal… sort of. He can only really fly over liquids and descends slowly if he falls. As mentioned, though, the cost of becoming mortal is that… he’s mortal. He can ultimately be killed, unable to ever return back if so. This also explicitly prevents him from reforming, as defeating Herobrine drops his head.

Resistances

John Doe

  • Corruption: John Doe is able to resist the damage and general effects of the corrupt Roblox code, and it has obviously been something he’s absorbed into himself. 

  • Stuns: John Doe cannot be stunned for less than 2.5 seconds. In turn, when being stunned, John Doe will also be granted a speed boost. In Midnight Horrors, he is entirely immune to being stunned.

  • Poison: Through sheer durability, John Doe can survive being poisoned.

  • Minor Mind Manipulation: John Doe cannot be entirely influenced by items that would cause him to ignore the player.

Herobrine

  • Physical Attacks: Specifically within his non-physical form, which is without a Blackstone Totem, Herobrine does not physically form, giving him the means to possess beings and alter the world without needing to physically build. However, this is entirely lost when Herobrine takes his mortal form.

  • Direct Code Effects: Herobrine is not treated as a player in Minecraft’s code, meaning it is impossible to alter him- at least, directly- with commands. This includes aspects of the command system like /gamemode (altering the very rules of your character) or /clear (entirely removing your inventory), which are player-specific commands. A good reference of commands during this time can be found here. 

Weaknesses

John Doe

John Doe is fake!!!


John Doe’s main weaknesses retain in how much of a berserker he is. While he is very often able to circumvent being stunned, and can overwhelm most survivors in his path, he is usually just durable enough to withstand any attack thrown at him. That can leave him very much open to attacks from those similarly as strong as him, although in the cast of Forsaken and in most rosters, he is always one of the most durable combatants.


Furthermore, Mr. Doe is susceptible to powerful mind manipulation. His mind has been heavily altered by The Spectre, to the point that his feelings toward his wife have been blocked out entirely. He is also unable to break or walk past his own spikes from Corrupt Energy. He is also susceptible to having his vision altered, as shown by Taph’s Subspace Tripmines.

Herobrine

Little Herobrine, I’m cumming in your mom.


Herobrine, as you might tell, is not the type of guy to immediately start fighting you. One of the big things present with Herobrine, particularly in “The End of Herobrine”, is that he is not naturally a physical being. With the Blackstone Altar, Herobrine can become mortal, but it is the thing that he would rely on in order to have a constant physical presence. Without the Altar’s presence, Herobrine is stuck as a spirit who can only alter blocks and possess beings, unable to direct attack the player. This can be pretty good to note when you’re surviving him, as with that Altar’s activation, it opens up a route for you to be able to kill the guy. Otherwise, he’ll be entirely restricted to stalking you, and while it might be creepy, you’ll be safe! Mostly. 

Feats 

John Doe

Overall

  • Will destroy Roblox on March 18th… Not this 18th though.

  • Has clearly hacked and taken over the accounts of hundreds of Robloxians

  • One of the greatest Roblox urban legends.

  • No more wife… 💔

  • Doe Block

Power

Speed

Durability

  • John Doe is durable enough to survive a gunshot from a revolver without any notable damage

    • Chance’s revolver shots would carry 784 joules of energy behind them.

      • Applying the March 18th multiplier to this means John Doe has a durability equivalent to 1.66 Megajoules, without factoring the actual damage dealt in which Chance lands the bare minimum amount of damage to John Doe.

  • John Doe can survive Taph’s Subspace Tripmines which create explosions worth 2198.81 kilojoules.

    • Taph’s tripmines can also destroy houses, however, it’s likely that the ones John Doe encounters are intentionally nerfed (See The Spectre)

Herobrine

Overall

  • The most notorious story of Minecraft’s player base

  • Has been removed from Minecraft several times… and comes back time and time again, still hauntinf players!

  • Responsible for the hauntings of hundreds of players, and in turn the deletion of entire worlds.

  • He’s been retconned too many times to count.

Power

Speed

  • Able to, very often, outrun players after stalking them from a distance.

  • Can keep up with the player in physical combat, matching blows, thus they would likely scale to similar attack speeds.

Durability

Scaling

John Doe

The Last Guest (Forsaken)

Guest 1337 is one of the many Survivors present in Forsaken who originates from extended media, and is one of the few survivors pretty clearly physically comparable to the killers- including John Doe. While the main twist with Guest 1337’s presence in Forsaken is that he actually died to the grenade, he is intentionally supposed to fit within the same narrative as a sort-of alternate universe. As a result, he should retain mostly the same physicals as his full movie self, since he doesn’t face any exponential growth in the story to justify getting stronger. 

Forsaken Cast

Alongside Guest 1337, John Doe should be naturally comparable to the rest of Forsaken’s cast. There’s not much to cover, as this should be pretty self-evident. For the sake of not needing to update this in the future, and a better coverage for potential crossover scaling, we’ll also reference feats from currently confirmed killers and survivors that will come in future updates. 

Midnight Horror Killers

John Doe is one of the many killers in Midnight Horrors (seriously, over 450 killers), so it’d make sense for him to scale– granted almost all killers pose very similar threat levels to the player and can (usually) be equally harmed by weapons. 


Herobrine

The Actual Game (Minecraft)

Thank the lord we already tackled a majority of the research needed!! Most interactions with Herobrine do not present him in a fighting role, but he’s very consistently in most combative plug-ins comparable to Steve unarmored, as his blows can become ineffective with high tiers of armor. However, Herobrine’s direct combative appearances have only stacked up to older versions, so we’re admittedly unsure on applying feats from updates later down the line.

  • Steve can withstand the energy of falling at maximum velocity from a fall, although he still dies from impact without the mace (1.26 Megajoules)

  • Steve is able to survive explosions from TNT without armor at a distance and with armor at a closer distance (Up to 0.01 Tons of TNT)

  • Steve can travel around the Nether with no issue, which is hot enough to evaporate water in an instant.

  • Steve is able to lift and run with Golden Armor, which weighs 68.8 Kilograms.

  • Steve is able to throw Ender Pearls at 23 m/s.

  • Able to react and move when using the Riptide enchantment, which allows Steve to move at high velocities (125 m/s)

  • The fastest Horse that can be attained in Minecraft moves at high speeds through being bred with Swiftness potions (14.23 m/s)

  • Note: Minecraft’s b/s rates can be found on this table, which directly translates to m/s.

  • The Wither is able to produce explosions greater than a cubic meter of TNT with his basic attacks (Upscaling 1.819 Tons of TNT) and has a radius of around six meters (~0.02 Tons of TNT)

  • The Ender Dragon has gravitational potential energy equivalent to 0.05 Tons of TNT

  • The Ender Dragon can ram through blocks, destroying them, with this much volume.

    • If we assume that destroying blocks is complete pulverization, the Ender Dragon can ram into blocks and completely destroy them, which with stone is an equivalent to 5.98 Tons of TNT. The general pulverization value is around 214 j/cc, which is also equivalent to 5.98 Tons of TNT. 

    • You could assume that the Ender Dragon is pulverizing blocks at different values of energy rather than the same, meaning that pulverizing diamond blocks in this volume is equivalent to 3.7 Kilotons of TNT.

Before The Verdict

Cross-Scaling

There weren’t many outright debatable aspects we needed to mention about feats, particularly because most of the feats present for Herobrine in regards to scaling were covered in a prior blog of ours from two months ago. As for John Doe, a majority of his feats come down to cross-scaling, so how did we handle this?

Forsaken Cross-Scaling

Within the grounds of Forsaken, every killer and survivor has some grounds in one way or another to a different game or person in Roblox, with some minute exceptions. For example, Elliot is a worker from Work at a Pizza Place who very explicitly comes from that game, particularly when factoring in his background where he survived the very literal exploits done by c00lkidd. Similarly, one of the major references for feats in this section comes from Guest 1337, who’s story explicitly comes from the Last Guest, only retconned to where he actually died from the grenade explosion in the series instead of surviving. This very blatantly connects to the actual series in his characterization and behavior, such as how much he cares about his family or his kit in the game, so there’s not necessarily any reason to oppose the idea of scaling. What becomes more complicated is just scaling characters to whatever we felt like, as many people have done in regards to general Roblox scaling. However, pretty blatantly, we don’t see any reason to scale characters to just any Roblox game, even with the existence of Roblox moderators being playable characters. In a similar vein, we believe that it would be best not to use actual scaling from Roblox’s own media, as Forsaken and the rest of John Doe’s media we used simply do not align with what would be present within their “story”, if that makes sense. Ultimately, while we agree on many routes of scaling, there are restrictions we inherently argue for the sake of the blog and making sure the feats were organized without digging into obscure Roblox guides that say 1x1x1x1 is secretly a fifth-dimensional being or media like that.


While yes, there are some inconsistencies with how cross scaling is done here. Particularly with the other games that aren’t Forsaken, such as Robloxia Until Dawn. This game features different designs and movesets for its characters, such as Guest 666, Builderman, c00lkidd, and even John Doe himself. But we feel it’s fine to be used despite the inconsistencies due to both games not only having collaborated before, but also due to both games taking very heavy inspiration from each other. Furthermore, while series like Oblivious HD have very different takes on legends like Guest 666, it is most likely a different version of Guest 666 than the one present in Forsaken. These different variations aren’t different enough to justify them not being able to be soft-composited with each other. On other hands for games like Midnight Horrors, this game particularly wouldn’t have cross-scaling and maintains a generally non-serious roster, but characters within the game have enough of their own feats to warrant scaling arguments to be made. Plus, all of these games route back to the same origin, which is the original exploit that was of John Doe.

The Spectre

In Forsaken’s lore, The Spectre is essentially the puppet master of damnation. It is very obviously a homage to The Entity from Dead by Daylight. It is responsible for the realm, all of the characters in it, and most importantly; why everyone is so restricted inside damnation. The lore explanation for game mechanics like cooldowns or basic character limitations is actually The Spectre restricting what its victims can do. For example, Shedletsky is unable to slash his sword multiple times due to The Spectre. This would also explain why Guest 1337 can only punch the killer after blocking an attack, or why 007n7 only has a small fraction of the c00lGUI. Every single character’s items and strength of those items is determined by The Spectre. Even Taph’s Subspace Tripmines which have the capability to destroy houses are unable to do so within damnation.


It is more than likely that John Doe’s abilities are not up to their full potential as we play him in Forsaken, as we can tell given his origins as a classic server exploiter where he functionally is unstoppable. For the sake of allowing John Doe to live up to his full power, we will be going with the assumption that John Doe is not restricted by the rules of The Spectre. This is why we will be giving him his March 18th form as well, as it is supposed to be his greatest form on the day he destroys Roblox, and is likely only restricted by the Spectre normally.


Though this fact about The Spectre does put scaling to characters like Guest 1337 into question. We believe Guest 1337’s physicals would remain the same, as there is no evidence of The Spectre changing the physical capabilities of its victims. The only thing it’s shown to be able to change is the strength of items, and the ability for survivors to use those items. Guest 1337 on his own also retains his physical strength as one of his greatest strengths as a survivor, so it is unlikely he wouldn’t be as powerful as before despite it being biggest asset. Therefore, we believe cross-scaling for the ObliviousHD universe is acceptable under this line of reasoning.

Fan Art

TheDerpyPotato

Valve (Full art here)

Verdict

Strength

To start with this verdict, we’ll be looking over the physical strength of these two combatants. Herobrine and John Doe display their fair share of feats, as well as branches of scaling across their games.


For starters, when looking at their base games and the scaling they have, it’s pretty evident that Herobrine is at a disadvantage. Within his non-physical form, Herobrine is able to usually deal with and easily kill Steve unarmored, particularly via summons or possession. This would place him in that ballpark, as armor scaling up until diamond does not exactly amplify Steve’s durability notably. While unarmored and with armor up until diamond, Steve can withstand the explosives of a cubic meter of TNT from a six meter distance, reaching up to 0.01 Tons of TNT. In tandem, Herobrine being able to produce lightning strikes (equivalent to 1.6 gigajoules per second) meant that he was at most able to output 0.38 Tons of TNT. Within the grounds of Forsaken, John Doe is able to create stacks of pillars all at once with kinetic energy behind it. The creation of twenty six of these spikes at once leads to a combined kinetic energy value of 0.02 Tons of TNT. Furthermore, if we use March 18th buffed John Doe, he can launch up to 200+ spikes combined which can ramp their power up to 0.17 Tons of TNt! In tandem with this, John Doe is very much physically comparable with the various killers shown in Midnight Horrors, including Boom Deez. Boom Deez himself is powerful enough to burn Robloxians to char, leaving nothing remaining, which we threw together to be in the 0.05 to 0.07 Tons of TNT ballpark. In a physical fight, John Doe and Herobrine can net similar stats, but John Doe edges out to at most about 7 times stronger.


In terms of lifting strength, John Doe also has a clear edge. While Herobrine scaling to Steve nets him the capability to lift 68.8 kilograms, John Doe is far stronger than that via scaling to Shedletsky who can carry 227.9302 kilograms. That is 3.3 times difference in John Doe’s favor. And given John Doe’s far superior showings of physical combat, he’d be more than capable of lifting and throwing around Herobrine into bad positions that give him an advantage. 


However, this isn’t even touching on more expansive scaling that both get, especially with Herobrine’s forms. Within the End of Herobrine, a Blackstone Totem grants Herobrine access to his “physical prime” at the cost of becoming mortal. In this form, he is a boss that effectively acts as a reskin to the Wither, capable of withstanding a few hits from the Netherite Sword and being able to easily damage Steve even in his greatest kits of armor. Due to being able to produce explosions greater than the aforementioned cubic meter of TNT, Herobrine should at least upscale around 1.819 Tons of TNT. This would place Herobrine on a similar level to other bosses like the Ender Dragon, who is strong enough to instantly destroy non-End blocks. While this is absolutely ranging values depending on how you view it, this feat has gotten calculations ranging from 5.98 Tons of TNT and all the way up to 3.7 Kilotons of TNT. These measurements, as talked about in the scaling section, mostly vary depending on how you look at block destruction. As this is Herobrine’s physical prime, this is the highest value you would be able to scale him to. On the other hand, with an unrestricted John Doe, he should scale relative to a majority of the casts in Midnight Horrors, as well as the feats he can perform on his own accord. Namely, John Doe is able to call down meteorites from the sky through his sheer power, as well as call down lightning strikes. However, more of our focus comes down to the meteorites. Due to them being set on fire as they come down, we can easily assume that they follow under the average speed referenced for meteors from space– which is about 11 kilometers per second. This means that John Doe can call down meteors hitting values worth 28.7 Kilotons of TNT. Pretty cool! However, if you don’t believe that these meteors came from space, and instead compare them to a player’s walking speed, it gets a rather measly 0.007 Tons of TNT. Lame!  However, this isn’t even the greatest feat present in Midnight Horrors. Another killer known as Joy is a massive ball that rams into players, killing them by crashing down on or into them. This means that they are very evidently outputting kinetic energy to harm players, meaning that we have direct reasons to use their kinetic energy for attack potency in this context. When Joy charges at a player, not only are they able to outspeed the fastest gears, but  fast enough to even catch on fire. This range would mean Joy outputs energy worth 9.66 Kilotons of TNT to 29.64 Megatons of TNT per charge. While you might think John Doe might not scale normally, there are multiple key points to be made. Namely, while Joy cannot bypass Blue Relic at all nor deal damage to players equipping it, John Doe is powerful enough to entirely bypass it with only reduced damage, as mentioned on the Midnight Horrors wiki. Plus, while John Doe is able to destroy forcefields created by players, Joy simply does not have the ability to do so with their charges. As a result, John Doe should pretty blatantly scale to these values depending on how you interpret the actual energy, and is pretty consistent if you buy into the meteor feat. This would put John Doe at least 2.6x greater in strength when comparing their highest to lowest ends, and over 8,000x greater in strength when comparing their highest.


Overall, while Herobrine certainly isn’t a pushover in sheer physicality, John Doe has far greater ends you can argue for in every form. Combine this with the fact that John Doe gets an amplifier to his durability over 2,000 times when at his own peak (given equal leeway for both having access to these forms), and he pretty evidently takes advantage in a physical fight. John Doe wins the category of Strength.

Speed

While strength might have more to it, speed becomes a bit more easy to cover. Looking at these two in general, you might not outright assume them to be particularly fast, and that’s… fairly accurate. This is going to be one of the more tame categories to tackle for either. Both Herobrine and John Doe reach fairly similar speeds normally, as John Doe being able to move up to 8.7 meters per second aligns fairly well with Herobrine being able to move as fast as Steve on foot, who can reach a running speed of 5.6 meters per second, although he can outrun Herobrine when advancing up to 7.1 meters per second. With this scaling chain, Herobrine should scale to Steve’s throwing (and thereby, attacking) speed which can launch ender pearls (as well as other throwables like snowballs) at 23 meters per second in optimal conditions. On the other hand, John Doe’s Corrupt Energy is able to move at speeds reaching 14.55 meters per second. Although Herobrine is a fair bit faster in this regard, their highest ends become a bit more interesting. John Doe is able to intercept the reactions of Guest 1337, who can perceive bullets in a slower perception and barely dodge them. While this feat mainly has issues with the fact that we aren’t sure if Guest 1337 is entirely retaining his speed, the ability to dodge a bullet from an M1911 with muzzle velocities of around 253 meters per second surely has to count for something. On the other hand, while it’s very unlikely Herobrine actively scales in speed (as it can outright outspeed him), you could throw in the idea that Steve can react while moving with the Riptide enchantment under thunderstorms, which pushes him to moving at speeds up to 125 meters per second, which gives a gap just about two times if you compare the speeds of the actual attacks / flight speed without factoring in potential problems with scaling. Granted that John Doe and Herobrine both take advantages over one another in this department, and John Doe only taking full speed advantage at their absolute highest ends, we believe it’s best to call the Speed category a Tie.

Tactics

These two both at their cores are stalkers of players, very often haunting you and wherever you go. As a result, a pretty big factor should come down to how exactly these two actively hunt one another, and what that means in a fight.


As it stands, Herobrine is a much more distant combatant. His ability to constantly loom in the shadows and flee whenever he needs to in tandem with tons of indirect attacks with summons makes him a pretty dangerous challenge, as he will always remain out of sight and range. Even within his more powerhouse form, Herobrine will never let up in a fight and constantly teleport or move to an enemy, taking advantage of the physical strength he gains within his prime. Effectively, Herobrine displays enough combat intelligence to adapt to a situation in certain forms and how to stay out of an enemy’s effective range before striking out when an opening presents itself. 


This is simply… way more advanced than John Doe. While John Doe can make calculative maneuvers and is the most technical killer within Forsaken due to the ability to set up traps and walls, a main aspect of his mindset is that he is a ruthless killer who solely focuses on destruction and rampaging. When looking at John Doe while he’s not under the influence of The Spectre, he is a much more sadistic and brutal combatant endlessly chasing enemies. This mindset is ultimately what Herobrine takes advantage of in every scenario he appears in, beckoning unfortunate players to follow him and then trapping them. Plus, Herobrine is far more than likely a more experienced killer, as while the Entity’s games and John Doe’s appearances across Roblox are notable, he has been haunting worlds far before John Doe would merge with the older code of Roblox and become a killer. While Herobrine might lose that mindset of stalking in his physical prime when he goes in fully aggressive, there’s no doubt that Herobrine is ultimately a far more tactical killer than John Doe. With that in mind, Herobrine will be taking the Tactics category.

Powers

While these are pretty notable categories, these two haunting Urban legends have a far more notable spot in their abilities and powers. John Doe’s main kit consists mostly of abilities offering a variety of environmental and combative powers, including his spike formations, traps, or various miscellaneous abilities like meteor or thunder strikes. With such an expansive kit of powers at his disposal, it wouldn’t be a surprise if he had the means to outpace Herobrine pretty easily. Both Herobrine and John Doe were pretty even in regards to secondary powers, with their fair share of means of teleportation, blindness inducing attacks, and agility. Herobrine does admittedly also hold a huge numbers advantage over John Doe’s head, as his ability to summon tons of mobs that he can simultaneously possess and attack him with are pretty big– although at the cost of John Doe’s means of attacks usually allowing him to take advantage. His passives, such as the corruption spreading around him, can shut down most mobs who get spawned atop of him. On the other hand, John Doe’s ability to impale those nearby him passively, or otherwise convert them entirely into binary through simple attacks, allows him to instantly put an end to mobs thrown at him otherwise if they weren’t dealt with by his corruption dealing passive damage which can likely already be enough to take down lesser mobs like chickens. He can also cover his entire body in this defunct code as shown by Milestone IV, which would also seriously shut down any low level mobs trying to jump him. If he needs to, John Doe can send Corrupt Energy into random directions, further adding to his ability to handle himself on his own.


This doesn’t entirely mean Herobrine was at a disadvantage, as the ability to induce blindness in John Doe shut down his means to land means of erasure on him, which would regardless become effectively useless as he could simply come back with his means of duplication should be out of physical form. Granted Herobrine’s mob spawning is very likely a power he would retain in his physical prime, he has no reason to lack the capability of using it within the fight. In tandem with this, Herobrine’s capability of mind control is still massive. Not only would the large expanse of mobs at his disposal to drop on John Doe likely keep him busy, but John Doe very distinctly does not resist powers like that. Plus, with mobs that Herobrine can amplify with tick rate manipulation means he can drop mobs who can attack John Doe before he can move, as these mobs move faster than they would usually via having a heavily amplified progression of time. Him being able to match John Doe on many fronts with miscellaneous abilities like fire projection or thunder strikes is a big factor, and generally being able to mess around with him with the factor of most of John Doe’s powers not being able to harm him is fairly notable.


However, many of these advantages are lost once we look at forms. Namely, as it is his stated prime, Herobrine can become physical through a Blackstone Totem. This form is not generally standard, but given the fact that John Doe himself is treated as unrestricted, we felt like it would be best to start off Herobrine in this form with the Totem active. With this Blackstone Totem, it gives Herobrine’s normally non-physical form that cannot majorly fight without controlling mobs a powerful physical amplification. The main caveat to this is that Herobrine becomes much less of a stalker who relies on a variety of abilities to interact with John Doe, but a fully-fledged physical combatant. As a result, while it’s unknown if Herobrine entirely loses out on his powers, he dumbs his kit down to a variety of combative powers. While teleportation, gliding, and shooting explosive skulls are really powerful abilities in a fight, it simply pales in comparison to what John Doe can perform. Should Herobrine retain his powers, we don’t really know if he would still use them. However, the fact that the main point of this fight is that putting Herobrine in a mortal form prevents him from respawning like in his prior non-physical form is a big problem, as it ensures that John Doe’s Corrupt Energy can ultimately kill Herobrine if it can successfully erase or transmute him into binary. The fact that Herobrine also likely lacks his ability to induce blindness just via the fact he more often focuses on projectile spam now gives John Doe the means to ultimately put down Herobrine via ranged abilities, like how him being able to click on Herobrine can burn him to nothingness, erasing him physically. Even if Herobrine could kill John Doe at that point, he can bring Herobrine down with him and likely might even have the ability to come back from it with BADCHOICE (a server-wide nuke that Herobrine cannot counter), while Herobrine evidently would not be able to.


Herobrine’s hax are potent against John Doe, but it is more than likely that they’d end up hurting him in the long run. Herobrine cannot contest with John Doe in his mortal form, but even as a spiritual entity, his hax might arguably screw him over. While things such as blindness manipulation are helpful, they wouldn’t change the course of the battle. Furthermore, while Herobrine’s best wincon would be to incap John Doe via mind control, it is likely that this wouldn’t work. John Doe’s mind has been overtaken by the defunct code much like his body, and if Herobrine were to ever try and possess John Doe, he would most likely get overtaken by that same code himself. Herobrine is resistant to code manipulation but not outright corruption, which is what the defunct code that influences John Doe is. Yes, John Doe is NOT immune to mind manipulation, as shown by The Spectre. But, it is very unlikely for Herobrine’s mind manipulation to be as potent as a lifeform who lacks a physical form like The Spectre. The Spectre created damnation itself and has full control over that reality, it is more than likely a lifeform beyond what John Doe could realistically comprehend. The Spectre's mind control is also shown to be far stronger than Herobrine’s, as it can make you outright forget crucial parts of your life and warp your personality completely.


Ultimately, while Herobrine blatantly should outhax in every regard with the ability to avoid anything thrown at him when outside of his physical form, once that comes into play… Simply put, Herobrine cannot feasibly prevent John Doe’s methods of killing him while in this form. He lacks the main wall of abilities that prevents John Doe from even using most of his attacks on him, and him losing the ability to simply reform and duplicate himself whenever he needs to means would simply cause him to lose out on his biggest advantage: survivability. Without that survivability, BADCHOICE alone prevents Herobrine from ending the fight without dying himself. Ultimately, while Herobrine takes this advantage normally, his strongest form would unironically give John Doe the upper hand. All in all, while Herobrine holds an advantage at first, John Doe overall takes Powers.

Conclusion

John Doe

“I’m DOE-ING OUT!!”

Advantages

  • Far stronger physically.

  • Notably faster with higher ends of speed.

  • Cannot be killed by Herobrine without Herobrine also dying.

  • Can deal with Herobrine’s minions via Corrupt Energy constructs.

  • Herobrine’s strongest form allows John Doe to be able to kill him.

  • Will always know where Herobrine is via his aura reading abilities, not allowing Herobrine to get the jump on him.

  • Durability amplification even furthers the gap in physical stats.


Neutral

  • Comparable ends of speed overall.

  • In base forms, both can come back from being killed…

    • … but only John Doe retains this.

Disadvantages

  • Cannot interact with Herobrine’s spiritual form, nor does he have the means to kill him in this form.

  • Susceptible to Herobrine’s various abilities, specifically his mind manipulation.

  • Notably at a numbers disadvantage.

  • Less tactical in comparison, and simply not as strategic as Herobrine.

  • Has a skin based off Hazbin Hotel 🥀🥀

Herobrine

“Stop.”

Advantages

  • Far greater numbers advantages

  • Far more strategic and tactical in combat, especially against those who would mindlessly pursue him like John Doe.

  • Far more versatility with power applications without needing to be present.

  • Tick Rate Manipulation gives Herobrine access to summons that can blitz John Doe.

  • Blindness can prevent John Doe from opening up with insta-kill options…

  • Non-corporeal form makes it impossible for John Doe to kill him…

  • Actual aura farm.

Neutral

  • Comparable ends of speed overall.

  • In base forms, both can come back from being killed…

    • … but only John Doe retains this.

Disadvantages

  • … but blindness wouldn’t prevent John Doe from sensing his aura.

  • … but his strongest form leaves him vulnerable to being killed

  • Far weaker physically.

  • No counters to John Doe’s transmutation and erasure.

  • Cannot successfully kill John Doe without killing himself in the process.

  • No resistances to John Doe’s corruption.

  • Most likely could not attack John Doe’s mind without risking himself getting corrupted.

  • Originated from 4chan :(


While both of these combatants were vastly powerful in their own rights, only one of these internet urban legends had the means to put an end to this fight. Herobrine’s versatility and experience did wonders, and having a form that would allow him to withstand anything John Doe threw at him gave him a really powerful advantage. However, in order for Herobrine to ever do any meaningful damage, being forced to resort to his physical best meant the end for the stalker from the fog. Granted his inability to actually kill John Doe, this form would only worsen Herobrine’s chances, as it meant he would be left vulnerable to the Corrupt Energy of the old Roblox code. No matter how Herobrine approached this fight, it would only end awful for him as the first Robloxian took the life of another account.


It looks like Herobrine just couldn’t block out Mr. Doe, and he ended up… forsaken.

The winner is… John Doe.


John Doe (2): valve, Derpy


Herobrine (1): HyperSsonic

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