VS Blog: Pyro vs Black Noir (Team Fortress 2 vs The Boys)

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(valve)

(Tario)

(Omega)

Come with me and you'll be

In a world of pure imagination.

Pure Imagination, Timothée Chalamet


Pyro, Team Fortress 2’s fear-inducing pyromaniac Merc.


Black Noir, the superpowered ninja from The Boys.


Fear is a primal feeling of man, and the worst kinds of fear come from the men who are cold, unfeeling, and downright cruel. Those are the real kind of monsters, with unfeeling eyes and emotionless stares, that one should be scared of. Yet, with these two, there’s that underlying trace of humanity in their murder that makes you wonder: what could be going inside of their head?


Disregarding the movie Inside Out, these two are interesting mass murderers because they’ve never sat right. Whether it was a childhood behavior that stuck with them in life or the mask they wear that alters how they look at everything, under that mask is a child who loves his friends. Outside of that mask is a remorseless killer who will slaughter you, and maybe decorate your body with a little gift. But between these two murderous members of the worst team compositions ever, who would win in a fight? We’ll be finding that out today in Valve’s Versus!

Before We Begin…

For this blog, we’ll be tackling the basic media coverage of both series. Pyro will be given the full extent of Team Fortress 2, with the focus on every official media released. This includes the prior game Team Fortress as well as the full comic series and any additional recorded side media, as well as miscellaneous animations like End of the Line. For Noir, we’ll be tackling The Boys’ Amazon show, but will be leaving out the comics due to obvious conflicts in their character and scaling. This will include spin-offs, however, such as Diabolical and Gen. V due to taking place in the same canon. 


We will also be referencing equipment Noir gets in external crossovers that are seen as canon Vought advertisements, as we’ve seen in other Supe advertisements these are generally made off of the basis of the Supe’s arsenals, with Noir himself (for example) being depicted as using a sword in Tournament of Heroes that aligns with him using a sword in missions himself. This gives simply more ground to play into Black Noir’s arsenal because of his limited number of missions portrayed in The Boys, and expands more on his capabilities that we don’t see much of due to his background. However, we aren’t using the actual crossovers within this blog or arsenals from those games overall, simply just the arsenals that have his specific branding, like the Quiet Rage, as they would be endorsed by Vought themselves and were likely modeled after things that Black Noir does like in Tournament of Heroes. On a similar note, we will be looking at Pyro’s full arsenal, as the intention is that Pyro would have access to it in the fight as a whole. However, equipment and abilities that are situational or inapplicable to this fight will be noted when they come up.


With that outline done, we do want to shout out a few external blogs/posts that supported in crafting this:



We’ll also throw credit towards the Official Team Fortress 2 wiki and The Boys Fandom wiki as they were very helpful secondary sources during the writing of this blog. 

Background

Pyro

“There are only two things that attract bears… honey… and menstruating women. My god, I knew it! Somehow I always knew it! PYRO!”


Almost two-hundred years ago marked the birth of three twins from a woman named Bette Mann. Under the company Mann Co., two of which were brought into the family business as their father’s late will would split these brothers. This will included land bought to expand the business of Mann Co., a weapons dealing business which was going to expand across the planet, land that the brothers fought over in the intention to rule over it. Identifying the gravel pits and dustbowls as common battlegrounds in order to engage conflict, the brothers formed entire mercenary groups in order to enact battle against one another- a conflict that exhausted itself for over one-hundred years. 


In particular, however, the brothers intended to assign mercenaries with similar skills against one another, an inexhaustable number of men who could be thrown at one another just to attempt to usurp control and dominance. This led to the formation of a certain type of mercenary between the teams, including that of the Pyro. Originally donned by Abraham Lincoln, the alias of the Pyro has gone to many people across the hundred year war over the badlands, such as the Classic Mercenaries and, most recently in 1968, included the group of mercenaries most well known as Team Fortress.  Pyro themselves is a massive threat- displaying competence enough to slay entire teams of BLU mercenaries on their own and striking fear even into their teammates. But, of course, Pyro isn’t naturally a murderer. Rather, Pyro sees the entire world in their twisted psyche as sunshine and lollipops and rainbows- helping out everyone he kills (if he even is a he) with kindness. This hasn’t subtracted from their willingness to fight, loving both fire in and out of their delusions, allowing them to be a competent fighter regardless of the situation. 


However, while the Pyro fought under the conditions of Redmond and Blutarch, the long lost third brother, named Gray Mann, soon forced himself into the picture- faking his sincerness as he intended to take ‘revenge’ on the brothers. Of course, this wasn’t exactly vengeance, rather out of the brother’s jealousy of the two. Being the backstab lying sunuvabitch that he is, Gray Mann would literally backstab the two brothers after their first meeting, leading them to enact a final conflict within the bounds of their mercenary teams. During the time of Halloween when their world merged with that on the other side, the mercenaries of RED and BLU would fight against eachother to help the men who hired them- with one of the brothers vaguely taking control and winning over the other, allowing those remaining mercenaries to ascend back into the real world. This wasn’t the end of the conflict of the mercenaries though, as the group reorganized itself now fought against the robotic forces of Gray Mann. While these robots were built to ascend the power of any mercenary, the sheer will and intention of the mercenaries allowed them to strengthen themselves enough with the economy they were given to upgrade themselves far beyond these robots, fighting all across the globe against the robots that Gray Mann sent out, forcing the two into an infinite stalemate just like the brothers before him. While the mercenaries did oppose Gray Mann- the brother had a much greater idea. This was an attack on the very people who hired the mercenaries, being the owner of Mann Co. 


While he does concede the war when face-to-face with the owner, Saxton Hale, Gray Mann uses the idea of the beefy Australian who’s policy of overtaking the company would to be taking on Saxton in a fight. While Gray Mann himself couldn’t take Saxton on in a fight, Gray Mann would put Saxton up against his underage daughter in a fight- someone who Saxton refused to fight. With Saxton’s concession, Gray Mann now took full order over the company, including the mercenaries. Seeing this as his advantage point, he would disband the mercenary team- leading each member to go their own ways unwillingly. This includes the Pyro, who would work at an unnamed company that they would later ascend in the ranks as up until they became the CEO. Later, with the intentions of Miss Pauling and the Administrator, the Pyro as well as the rest of the mercenaries were gathered up all together in order to fight back against Gray Mann months after the original takeover. Travelling many times across the world, the team eventually reconvenes in New Zealand overall, with them taking on the forces of Gray Mann’s remaining robots. In the same time frame, Gray would hire the previous team of mercenaries (seen in the classic Team Fortress games, mentioned earlier) to fight against the forces of Team Fortress, which despite being in an elderly state the cast would track down and take down members of Team Fortress, such as killing the Sniper, before capturing them- dragging them to Mann Co’s original headquarters.


However, the Classic mercenaries would find out that their cause of fighting came from Australium- a power source that grants immortality. With their leader, the Classic Heavy, their greed leads to them killing Gray Mann who wields a machine keeping him alive with Australium and attempting to use all of the man’s resources against the mercenaries- however, with the sheer cunningness and power of Team Fortress, these advantages would be overcome no matter what the Classic Mercenaries could do, like draining all of their blood with Australium-sucking robots or using the remaining stockpile of Gray Mann’s robots against them. With this, the mercenaries now took down each and every single member of the team- including the once-powerful Heavy who’d wield the stolen Australium machine from Gray Mann who’d been easily taken down by the modern Heavy. Having taken down all potential numbers of enemies from their final enemy, Team Fortress had taken victory- striking down one of the highest orders of mercenary organizations in the world, and while not recognized as anything but the rejects, they still won. 

Black Noir

“...”


Back in the 1980s, a company known as Vought sought out to create a superhero team with their highly-powerful Compound V substance, which a young combat-experienced Black Noir wanted to shine in. Joining into the team of superheroes, he would join forces alongside seven others to form the group Payback. … But, while you might expect things to go fantastically, this was far from the case. In truth, Payback’s leader Soldier Boy was a highly emotional and enraged leader who would beat down anyone who tried to get in his way, and that included Noir himself. Built with resentment, the team fell apart, and the one thing that kept them together was the intention to take out Soldier Boy.


In a mission in Nicaragua, the CEO of Vought-America, Stan Edgar, offered Black Noir a reward if he were to take down Soldier Boy and send him to the Russians, leading to him and his fellow heroes to agree. They would in turn face off against Soldier Boy during an attack where they cornered him, and would fight against him. However, things went south for Noir, as Soldier Boy would overpower him and smash his skull in while burning his face against a jeep, leading to a horrible disfigurement. However, despite ruining the Stardom he wanted from the group, Black Noir and his fellow Supes had gotten Soldier Boy taken out of their group. Without a leader, however, alongside Edgar’s intention to bring a new superhero into the fray, the group disbanded and each took different roles in life.


Black Noir himself, however, remained steadfast in his work, as he became the new face of Vought after Soldier Boy’s ‘disappearance’. He took the face of Vought as they introduced a new hero named Homelander, a young superhero you might find similar to someone like Superman, who Black Noir would have to work with. Due to his power, he was regarded as being the one Supe who would need to make sure Homelander behaved, and otherwise kill him if he did not follow instructions. This was not something Black Noir intended on doing, although it struck fear into Homelander, who believed that Black Noir might kill him if he screwed up. While during a hostage conflict, Homelander had killed several terrorists and hostages he was not supposed to kill, which Black Noir encountered on his way to the mission. Homelander lashed out at Black Noir, fearful that he might get replaced, but the hero refused to try and fight. During their fight, Black Noir displayed his true intentions as Homelander endured the chemical plant’s failure, snapping the neck of a witness fleeing away in front of him. This led Homelander to understand Noir’s intention, and built a trusting relationship between the two that Homelander would have with no other Supe.


As the Seven expanded and they fought against terrorists, Black Noir encountered members of The Boys several times, and the Seven held the intention to take them out. After a fight with Kimiko after failing to take out Frenchie, tensions began to rise within Vought-International, leading to Black Noir taking more of a stealthy combat role. He would first appear in an assassination attempt against a powerful Supe-Terrorist known as Najib which he effortlessly took down, allowing for Vought to expand their influence. During this time, he would then look into Billy Butcher, a member of The Boys, who he would stalk and gather information upon. Alongside Edgar, they committed a plan to get to Butcher and ensure he would keep his mouth shut about the secrets of Homelander’s actions towards his wife.


Edgar would push Noir’s luck after deceiving Starlight and her mother, which leads to Noir attacking them with a knock-out gas attack. Beating down Starlight into unconsciousness, he kidnaps her to lock her away in Vought, albeit it fails. When Starlight escapes her jail, he’s able to attack her once more, nearly taking her out again until Queen Maeve intervened, force-feeding Black Noir an almond joy that triggered his tree-nut allergy. As a result of this, he was put into a vegetative state that kept him incapacitated for months. 


Months later when Billy Butcher began to work against Homelander, he worked alongside him during the reawakening of Soldier Boy from his Soviet experiments and deep-freezing that kept him unconscious for years. Due to his background knowledge of his former teammate, Black Noir grew seemingly fearful and went AWOL against Homelander, although with a discussion of his childhood imaginative friends, he healed those feelings over. He reunited back with Homelander, now with the plan to kill Soldier Boy. However, he would find out about Soldier Boy’s background and that he was the father of his best friend, making him hesitant on killing the man who abused him those years ago. Once finding out about this, though, Homelander asked Noir about it, realizing that he’d been covering up the truth. He was gutted by Homelander in a single punch, ripping out his intestines and dropping him to the ground. Despite such an unfortunate death, though, and Vought’s cover-up, Black Noir’s legacy was not in vain. Because he was so important to Vought’s history, they had to cover him up with a fake Black Noir who began to act in his role of the Seven, continuing on Black Noir’s role… albeit, he’s not really a stealthy ninja.

Experience

Pyro

As a member of Team Fortress, the Pyro has met constant reaches towards combat and general fighting. This has included such years where the Pyro has fought the MONOCULUS- a cursed eye with a new form who makes a yearly appearance every Halloween- or Grey Mann’s robot army- a large scale army of machines engineered to exceed any mercenary. This has gone to such a degree that Team Fortress is recognized to be the highest level- outclassing the Classic Team Fortress crew who were seen as sitting on top of the hierarchy despite the Team Fortress mercenaries seen as ‘inferior rejects’. Pyro has done more than just combat to display his (surprising) intelligence, such as when he’d become a very successful company’s CEO after the time gap between the Gravel War mercenary team’s disbandment. 

Black Noir

Before he joined the Seven, Noir was trained in combat to excel as a master of death who could mesh his skill with his strength and stealth. He has fought on par with or exceeded many of the other fighters in his series, having overwhelmed a majority of The Boys and Kimiko on his own through sheer tactics and power. He has also taken down Starlight with ease, who herself is a trained combatant that pushed herself to become a prime fighter in Taekwondo. He was able to infiltrate a stealth compound by a highly volatile and powerful Supe Terrorist known as Naqib, who he easily broke into and killed. Generally, he is a highly looked-upon Supe, given his experience across two different superhero teams with the several times he faced combat. His time as a superhero is notable enough to where most criminals are scared of his name, according to his official bio. 

Equipment

Pyro

Asbestos-lined Suit

Pyro wears a fire retardant suit, which prevents the effects of afterburn and generally protects Pyro from the effects of flames, hence the general lack of fire damage. The suit Pyro wears is also equipped with grenades of some sort and a gas tank which Pyro supplies ammo for the flamethrower from. 

Hats

Of course, Team Fortress 2 is the number one hat-based simulator, so of course they’d take importance in a fight. In truth though, most cosmetics offer no difference over the Pyro having zero effect besides showing off. Certain items, such as the Pyrovision Goggles, make special differences such as showing other classes the true worldview of the Pyro. Otherwise, besides flexing on an opponent or making special noises, the hats offer essentially no difference in a fight… usually. Tryhards disagree.

Flamethrowers

The most important tool in the Pyro’s possession, the Flamethrower. A short ranged gas-based weapon, the Flamethrower ignites enemies and buildings on fire dealing damage both directly and overtime with Afterburn. The effects of Afterburn additionally reduce the effects of healing and shield effects, allowing it to deal damage overtime and prevent quick healing against damage. Every variation of the Flamethrower, besides the Phlogistinator, is able to airblast, a short burst expulsion of air that can be used to reflect projectiles and other similar attacks as well as push around enemies, alongside being able to extinguish previously ablaze teammates, healing the Pyro in the process. Each Flamethrower besides this difference is usually distinguishable although they have special coverages between one another.

The Backburner

Akin to the regular flamethrower, the Backburner’s holds very similar flame mechanics with how it works. However, the main difference is set in the Backburner’s ability to deal extra damage when behind opponents and having a higher airblast cost, taking one fourth of Pyro’s entire canister in order to perform one. As a result, this item is a highly offensive weapon that doesn’t work as well defensively, fitting innately well into its job as a flanking tool.

The Degreaser

Akin to the regular flamethrower, the Degreaser is very similar both statistically and usage wise. The main difference between the Degreaser and stock flamethrower is its speed difference, which due to its lighter build the Pyro is able to swap easily between other weapons with the Degreaser in hand. Due to this, it can be seen a great tool when the Pyro wishes to use extensive combo tools in a fight. 

The Phlogistinator

The greatest offensive item in the Pyro’s kit, the Phlogistinator is a scientific weapon unleashing the ‘Phlogiston’ inside of all creatures, setting them alight. With this weapon, while Pyro lacks the innate ability to release airblasts, the Phlogistinator can use an on-demand Crits boost when enough damage is accumulated, allowing Pyro to burn down any enemies in his path. This weapon is powerful enough to entirely disintegrate a person, reducing their body to ash, further showing the innate power of the Phlog and the devastation it can bring.

Dragon’s Fury

Classified as a ‘flame launcher’, the Dragon’s Fury is a flamethrower which shoots out bursts of flames as its primary attack, allowing them to deal high damage however coming at the cost of their accuracy requiring more consecutive aiming. Like with the flamethrower normally, this burst-based powerhouse uses airblasts, with it carrying less ammo on average with airblasts costing five rounds of the forty round canister. 

Shotguns

Being one of Pyro’s alternative weapons, they are able to use shotguns as a way to deal damage to opponents should they run out of ammo in their primary or intend on dealing burst damage to an opponent. Sharing the three different weapons between other classes, the Pyro can use them in combination with any of their other weapons to increase their effectiveness beyond any other class. As it is their stock weapon, the Pyro is skilled to equip this normally which they can wield alongside their flamethrower as mentioned before.

The Reverse Shooter

Within the lines of the Shotgun, the Reverse Shooter is a secondary that can be deployed quicker than normal, dealing extra damage to those sent in the air. With no big differences beyond clip size, the Reserve Shooter can offer extra damage whenever needed with a faster deployment speed than otherwise.

The Panic Attack

As a quick burst option, no other weapon can come close to the Panic Attack. As a weapon that can be easily deployed on the run, it can deal immediate burst damage whenever needed. However, it is not a consistent weapon when used for longer, which leads to its accuracy decreasing and gaining and increased shot spread when used for extended periods of time. This leads the Panic Attack to be Pyro’s most reliable quick burst of damage but the least reliable overtime.


Flare Guns

Generally, Flare Guns are Pyro’s best way of dealing longer range damage with afterburn or a great immediate follow-up from flaming attacks. Due to their innate ability to deal critical damage against flaming targets, they are a powerful combo tool as well as being one of the Pyro’s only long ranged weapons thus integral to being able to close any gap in range. The standard Flare Gun deals consistent critical damage and has no extensive gimmick, allowing it to be very powerful if focused on consistency rather than gimmicky playstyles, however that doesn’t mean it is inherently the best.

The Detonator

What sets this Flare Gun apart from others is the Detonator’s ability to explode- allowing it to detonate when the Pyro activates it. With this Flare Gun, the Pyro is able to jump longer distances than any other as well as deal special area damage that others likely wouldn’t be able to cover without needing to lose the damage it performs well with.

The Scorch Shot

The worst nightmare of anyone with free will, the Scorch Shot is a heavy area of effect Flare Gun that deals extra knockback to flaming players as well as exploding on the ground- allowing it to even hit people twice for damage. This comes at the cost of the Scorch Shot’s damage, which is decreased, as well as its knockback force towards the Pyro, making it the least usable Flare Gun for jumping long distances. 

The Manmelter

A more ‘scientific’ flare gun, if you will. This flare gun allows the Pyro to extinguish teammates as a secondary fire in order to heal themselves, with each stored extinguish effect giving a guaranteed critical hit per blow. However, unlike the standard flare gun, the Manmelter does not instantly crit players who are on fire- preventing it from having the same on-demand damage increases the other weapons have.

Melees


Fire Axe

A common firefighter tool, the Fire Axe is a simple axe used to cut through burnt materials to secure victims in a fire… however, Pyro’s Fire Axe is used for a much deadlier purchase, which rather than saving victims, it makes victims. 

The Axtinguisher

A modified axe, the Axtinguisher is a weapon that deals mini-crit damage to opponents set on fire, however extinguishing them after the hit. Due to its kill speed boost and holster speed, the Axtinguisher’s strength comes best as a combo tool and finisher with Pyro’s flamethrower or flare guns. 

The Homewrecker

Being a simple sledgehammer, the Homewrecker is a weapon that exceeds in destroying technology- such as Engineer buildings or sappers used by the Spy. This allows the Homewrecker to be used in special handy utilities or allow it to take down distracted or idle buildings if needed. 

The Powerjack

The Powerjack is a special weapon that, when equipped, increases the Pyro’s movement speed and allows them to heal themselves on kill. However, this added mobility comes at the cost of the Pyro being more vulnerable to any damage sources, 

The Backscratcher

Being a common garden rake, the Backscratcher is a strong weapon that allows Pyro to deal increased damage. Due to its damage amplification, and increasing healing from mobile health packs, the Backscratcher makes a very potent tool for mobile and lone Pyro routes. However, this weapon significantly decreases healing from any outside sources, making damage sustained very difficult to close up unless the Pyro is able to make a route towards another healthpack. 

Sharpened Volcano Fragment

Created by the magma from a volcano, the ‘Sharpened Volcano Fragment’ is a weapon that, when it hits an enemy, sets them on fire. This allows them to deal damage and set enemies on fire, however has a bigger usage in resetting the time of Afterburn when it hits. 

Neon Annihilator

The Neon Annihilator is a neon sign uprooted from the ground which still retains power. In this regard, the Pyro deals critical damage to enemies who are wet, disintegrating them through pure energy. This makes it very useful in wet environments, hence the concept of a subclass named the Pyroshark. 

The Third Degree

The Third Degree is a really simple ‘fireaxe’, at least, that’s what its meant to be the form of. While statistically the same as the Fire Axe, the Third Degree’s specialty is its ability to chain hits between a Medic and their healed target, dealing equivalent damage to both parties and (due to the nature of shields created by the Medic) allows it to essentially circumvent means of damage reduction. 

The Hot Hand

Being a very… hot hand… this weapon allows Pyro to increase his speed by slapping opponents, which can be potentially useful as a weapon in… scenarios?? There’s not much to write about it, since like, it’s kinda pointless.

Thermal Thruster

The Thermal Thruster is a wearable jetpack that the Pyro can wear into combat, allowing for them to hop easily between ranges and take the high ground by getting into hard-to-reach areas. By jumping or landing, the Thermal Thruster is able to blow back enemies with the gusts of air that it propels, and with Mann vs. Machine upgrades, this air pressure is able to stun enemies and slow down stronger bosses.

Gas Passer

The Pyro is able to deal damage in other ways beyond their ranged weapons, too, such is the case of the Gas Passer, another secondary weapon that they wield on the battlefield. By accumulating enough damage, the Pyro can douse his opponents in a special form of gasoline that sets any enemy on fire- including other enemy Pyro’s- allowing extra damage. With its Mann vs. Machine perks, the Gas Passer’s ignition mechanic causes extra explosives, dealing additional potential damage and allowing it to deal with crowds to a heavier degree.

Magic Spells

(Unusable, Halloween Restriction)  By finding lost spell books or using weird potions, the Pyro is able to wield magical spells during Halloween. While they are usually randomized as pick-ups, being able to be found in various locations, the spells all are generally powerful enough to circumvent this. They can be used in support of Pyro’s weapons, support Pyro in a fight, or absolutely dominate opponents with one spell alone allowing them to circumvent entire team fights with the usage of magic. This is, however, something only accessible during Halloween. This is namely due to the fact that spells leaking into the world is as a result of the Witching Hour, which weakens the “wall between worlds”. This makes spells unusable for the mercenaries anywhere else if they don’t already start with a spell, but for the sake of the blog will still be covered.

Blast Jump

With the usage of a special magic, the Pyro can launch themselves upwards with an explosive, dealing damage to all surrounding enemies. This allows them to easily handle any potential crowding situations and, with their mobility options, can allow them to get to higher areas by adding an extra potential jump to their agility.

Stealth

With this spell, the Pyro can turn themselves invisible for eight seconds, allowing them to travel around undetected. Due to its nature, the Pyro is unable to attack in this state, as attacking will reveal themselves and dissipate the cloak. Another factor of this spell is its healing, which while small, can be easily brought up in a pinch if no other spell is given. 

Pumpkin MIRV

By dropping one bomb, the Pumpkin MIRV splits into multiple smaller bombs which can be detonated, dealing high damage to others. However, due to its explosive nature, the vast number of pumpkins can still deal damage to the Pyro if they’re close enough, leaving it better off to play at a distance. With this weakness, the Pumpkin can only be activated by the Pyro- as enemies who shoot the bombs will not detonate it but cause them to disappear.

Swarm of Bats

By summoning a large swarm of bats, the Pyro deals tons of damage with a… swarm of bats. These bats deal bleeding damage and toss around opponents, which makes it very potent for hitting opponents around and catching them off guard amidst a fight or adding extra support to one’s attacks. . 

Fireball

The Pyro can shoot a fireball from its hands which functions very similarly to a rocket, being able to hit opponents and set them on fire. However, unlike a rocket, this fireball cannot be deflected by the airblast, making it potentially a very powerful tool.

Shadow Leap

By launching a dark projectile, the Pyro can use this spell to gain high ground in fights. When this ball of dark energy hits the ground when thrown, it instantly teleports Pyro to the location in question. In addition to this teleportation, it will lightly heal Pyro for damage, allowing it to work both as a getaway tool and a way to continue taking advantage over an opponent in a fight, or even engage in combat against an opponent who isn’t expecting the Pyro (making very powerful usage of their flanking style of combat). 

Overheal

With this spell, Pyro becomes invulnverable for a short moment healing them immediately in the span of three seconds, both healing the Pyro and their teammates. This practically doubles the Pyro, and other teammates, healthpools, allowing them to tank much more damage than they normally would. In addition to healing, this spell brings a pushback option to opponents, knocking them away from the user to lessen any potential damage made to them if needed.

Minify

Turning into a very small creature, the Pyro can shrink themselves with Minify. This spell gives Pyro increased speed, reload time, etc. as well as decreasing their size, making it very difficult to properly hit them. Even worse is the Pyro’s ability to jump infinitely- allowing them to have a great deal of mobility with this spell including with their very small hitbox. The only vulnerability Pyro holds is their head- which is as big as the rest of their body, meaning that there is the potential to headshot them if the opportunity comes. Another benefit with this spell is the healing ability, healing over a half of Pyro’s overall health when this spell is used allowing it to work as a great escape option if needed.

Ball o’ Lightning

By throwing a ball of lightning, the Pyro creates an electric field that travels through the air pulling in opponents as the ball bounces around, constantly dealing damage and working especially well against grouped up opponents. 

Meteor Shower

With this spell, Pyro throws a fireball forward which brings a storm of meteors down onto opponents, setting them on fire and dealing tons of damage being able to cover entire chokepoints with its sheer size and range. This gives Pyro an absolutely devastating weapon especially towards enemies, allowing them to easily shut down opponents.

Skeleton Horde

Being able to raise the dead like a common necromancer, the Skeleton Horde spell brings the dead back to life. This brings several small skeleton units who will target enemies, including even invisible ones, dealing constant damage if they get in melee range. While not necessarily powerful, the distractions given by this horde are comparable to none.

Power-Up Canteens

The canteen is a Mann vs. Machine exclusive action item that the Pyro can wield into battle- gathering up to three charges of a unique perk which can be activated until requiring a recharge. Due to its nature, the Canteens can only hold one perk at a time, having four unique usages which can be taken into battle against the machines. 

Übercharged

With this canteen, the Pyro can gain a short-term 5-second invulnerability effect akin to the Medic’s Übercharge effect. This allows Pyro to resist certain effects and generally takes no damage from any source- however the Pyro is able to be knocked around, since this canteen is suited for defense or mowing through enemies without taking damage.

Crit Boost

With this canteen, the Pyro gains the Kritz boost effect, allowing them to deal three times as damage as normal. While normally present randomly or on demand with the Phlogistinator, all Flare Guns, and the Reserve Shooter, this canteen allows Pyro to activate critical hits at any time allowing them to increase their damage output at any time, easily overwhelming any opponents defenses as a result. 

Refill Ammo

With this canteen, the Pyro can simply refill all of their ammunition in a fight, including their secondaries, flamethrower canisters, etc. Simply put, this item allows Pyro’s ammo reserves (which are already massive) to increase threefold, causing them to struggle running out of ammo than actually struggling to keep it maintained. 

Teleport to Spawn

With this canteen, the Pyro can take a teleport back to their spawn- allowing them to refill ammo, heal themselves up, restock weapons, change canteens, etcetera. Although not particularly useful in direct combat due to Pyro needing to track their way back, with the help of a friendly Engineer this makes the work completely obsolete. This allows it to be useful in Mann vs. Machine missions, covering the bases of other canteens if need be for a cheaper cost.

Grappling Hook

Appearing in the Mannpower mode, the Grappling Hook is an action item which the Pyro can use to travel around quickly. Another benefit of this weapon is that it is actually able to hook onto enemies- dealing bleeding damage overtime and bringing Pyro in a very close range to an opponent. This is the quickest and most reliable transport tool for the Pyro, requiring no ammo to use and, as a result, can make it very easy for them to travel longer distances with it. 

Soul Gargoyle

Gifted by Merasmus, the Soul Gargoyle is an artifact which can absorb souls from players who are killed, allowing them to later be transmutated during Halloween with other artifacts to curse them- granting them unusual and haunting effects. While it holds generally no combat utility, this weapon is almost always present when Pyro kills an enemy, sealing away their soul in the artifact.  

Bumper Carts

Being special vehicles the entire Team Fortress 2 cast can drive, these Bumper Karts are vehicles that can simply be driven around- usually casted by Merasmus however they can be used on their own. While Pyro cannot explicitly attack during a taunt, they are able to wield certain spells in this vehicle.

Broomstick

Being a magical flying broomstick, the Pyro can hover all around a fight with their broomstick, although it does reduce Pyro’s speed. 

Hot Wheeler

This motortrike is a specialty, being one of Pyro’s own. This vehicle can perform cool tricks- which is one of the only things it can really do.

Piano

The Pyro can rock out with a cool miniature piano which they can play- usually amidst combat. Not sure what it’d do beyond that, but it’s cool!

Black Noir

Stealth Suit

As you might expect from the superpowered ninja, Black Noir is equipped with a tactical stealth suit that can protect him from danger such as blunt force like bullets. The suit gave him enough protection from an explosion from Naqib near its epicenter, who can create massive explosions that set aflame everything nearby and yet only burnt portions of Noir’s armor. He was also able to withstand likely point-blank explosions from the makeshift bombs created by Billy which did not deal immense damage to his suit yet burnt almost all of the room he was in. Thanks to the color scheme and light wear, it allows Black Noir to stealth his way around any fight, tracking down enemies before they can see him.

Melee Weapons

As you might expect, Noir is a ninja, and ninjas use a lot of melee weapons. He has used a variety of different weapons across his career in the Seven all to different degrees.

Dual Knives

A staple of Noir’s arsenal, his double blades are powerful melee weapons which he can use to cut any target down to size. They also seem to double as explosives, as they can detonate when met with enough force, which he used to create an explosive to stun Homelander. In the Vought collaboration with Call of Duty: Warzone, they are a reskin of the Dual Kodachis, which are built to provide the “sharpest cut”. His throwing knives are likely of the same variety and are similarly deadly, as he is shown to be able to throw them with immense precision. 

Swords

As a ninja, it makes sense for Noir to carry around a sword. He is shown using a dagger in his murder spree against a number of Supe terrorists, and is shown sharpening a katana that he also wields in Tournament of Heroes, as well as using a machete at one point.

Grenades

Black Noir has shown the usage of gas grenades, as he displays both the usage of knock-out gas grenades to incapacitate non-Supes instantly and has shown the usage of smoke grenades that could obscure Homelander’s vision. 

Firearms

Surprisingly, Noir isn’t just a ninja who’s good at stabbing, but might even have access to his own supply of guns, too. While they have appeared only in Warzone, given the Vought branding and that they have Black Noir’s special style, he might own them personally. Even if he didn’t, we’d still like to mention them because they’re really badass!

Quiet Rage

The Quiet Rage is a version of the Chimera/Honey Badger that he can take into combat. It is a fully/semi-automatic rifle fit with built-in suppression and slow, high-energy bullets which fires 800 rounds per minute. With a 30-round magazine at base, it is a very capable assault rifle for taking on targets in close-quarters, making it quite perfect for Black Noir. 

Unspoken Word

The Unspoked Word is an iteration of the FJX Imperium, a bolt-action sniper rifle fitted with high-calibre anti-personnel rounds. It is a devastating one-shot sniper rifle at its best ranges of 50 meters, although can struggle across greater ranges due to its built-in suppression limiting power and range.  

Paper and Pencil

He’s a friend!

Drink

Yummers.

Abilities

Pyro

Fire Projection

Through various means, Pyro is able to create fire mid-air, typically through taunts. For example, they can perform a ‘Hadouken’ through fire, summon massive explosions through the Rainblower taunt, and many other cases. 

Physical Upgrades

In Mann vs. Machine, there are various upgrades Pyro can upgrade which passively affect them, although they are also able to upgrade their weapons, too.

  • Blast Resistance: Resistance to explosions, such as rocketes.

  • Bullet Resistance: Resistance to bullets from weapons, such as shotguns.

  • Movement Speed Amplification: As it implies, increasing the speed of Pyro on foot.

  • Health Regeneration: Regeneration that Pyro gains passively overtime.

  • Fire Resistance: Resistance to flames, such as flamethrowers.

  • Crit Resistance: Resistance to critical effects, such as crockets.

  • Jump Height Amplification: Allowing Pyro to jump higher on foot.

Spectral Projection

(Unusable, Halloween Restriction) Pyro can become a ghost when they die, being able to roam the world as a spirit as of the Gravel Wars. By touching a teammate or equivalent, Pyro can come back from the dead and reform their physical body to fight once again. This is, however, a form only accessible during Halloween, as it is when the mortal realm and the world of the dead coincide.

Mannpower Powerups

(Inapplicable, Gamemode Restriction) In the Mannpower mode, Pyro can wield various different power ups in the usage of a fight. While only one can be used at a time, Mannpower powerups allow access to a vast ton of resistances or special usages. When Pyro is considered ‘dominating’ as an advantage, the effects of these various power-ups are reduced.

  • Strength: This power-up doubles Pyro’s damage however does not stack with critical hits.

  • Resistance: This power-up halves incoming damage, nullifies critical and mini-crit blows, and prevents the user from being instantly killed. This also offers resistances to (later mentioned) Reflect and Plague power-ups.

  • Vampire: This power-up allows the Pyro to gain health from all damage dealt, increases health, and gives a damage resistance. This also offers resistances to (later mentioned) the Reflect power-up.

  • Reflect: This power-up reflects 80% of all incoming damage, increases Pyro’s health nearly three-fold, and deals knockback equivalent to damage made to Pyro.

  • Haste: This power-up doubles firing speed, reload speed, airblast re-fire rate, clip size, and the refire rate of (specifically) the Manmelter. This also increases movement speed by 30% and increase the refire rate of other Flare Guns besides the Manmelter to five times.

  • Regeneration: This power-up constantly recharges and refills ammo as well as heals Pyro passively.

  • Precision: This power-up reduces the spread of bullets up to 90%, increases the radius of blast explosives, and makes the Pyro immune to self-damage.

  • Agility: This power-up increases speed by 50%, increases jump height by 80%, makes the switch speed of weapons nigh-instant, as well as making Pyro immune to fall damage. 

  • Knockout: This power-up locks Pyro to melee options- however increases Pyro’s melee hit strength by 190% of its base power, as well as making Pyro immune to knockback effects while they themselves deal increased knockback per hit. This power-up also forces opponents, if wielding one, to drop their power-ups or captured intelligence. 

  • King: This power-up increases Pyro’s health, regenerates Pyro’s health overtime, and increases reload and firing speed. This effect is shared with all nearby opponents, giving it much more potency in team fights.

  • Plague: This power-up gives Pyro a ‘Plague’ effect, causing enemies to bleed to death after ten seconds if they don’t heal themselves and gives Pyro a 50% resistance to damage done by opponents inflicted by the Plague.

  • Supernova: This power-up gives Pyro a one-time-use ‘Supernova’ attack that paralyzes all nearby opponents, dropping wielded power-ups, the intelligence, and pushes them back. However, upon charging this ability up and using it, it causes the ability to disappear.

  • Revenge: This power-up gives a crit boost for thirty seconds and allows Pyro to deal double damage to Engineer buildings. 

Rock, Paper, Scissors!

By playing a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors with the enemy, Pyro can (up to chance) kill an enemy team member by winning, causing them to explode, or Pyro themselves can blow up if they lose the game. 

Resistances

  • Fire: Pyro’s suit allows him to be immune to getting set on fire, although he still takes damage from direct damage. Mann vs. Machine upgrades make the resistance even stronger. 

  • Explosive, Bullet, and Crits: Mann vs. Machine upgrades ramp this resistance when applied by up to 75%, although crit resistance can ramp up to 90%.

Black Noir

Supe Physiology

Thanks to his power from Compound V, Black Noir is a “Supe”, giving him a wide variety of superhuman strengths and abilities. He has the obvious strength and durability of a superhuman, but some exceptional powers too.

Stealth Mastery

As you might expect, Black Noir is a really stealthy guy. After all, he’s a ninja with superpowers. He’s been able to infiltrate terrorist compounds on solo missions, he can sneak up on Supes like Starlight, Naqib, and a teenage Homelander who have immensely enhanced hearing. The latter, albeit in his older years, can tell blood pressure apart and has a hearing range of around 200,000 Hz, making this all the more impressive. Black Noir could also stealth away from Wiz & Boomstick, and they can comprehend higher dimensions… Truth nuke!!

Acrobatics

Black Noir can perform high jumps to evade opponents like Homelander, and very often applies his acrobatics to missions, such as hiding on rooftops against The Boys. He is also really fast, stated to be as fast as a car, so he’s obviously running a ton of cardio. 

Resistances

Support

Weaknesses

Pyro

The Pyro is an insane individual with their love for pyromania, with their most obvious delusion being the fact of Pyrovision. While this might be unique, the vision may corrupt Pyro in combat (although this obviously doesn’t stop them) and this insanity has caused them to pop in and out of their hallucinations when met with anything that opposes fire. Most importantly, though, Pyro is a very ammo-reliant character despite their ability to replenish themselves, leaving them being able to burn through (pun intended) certain arsenals if they aren’t careful. Plus, while Pyro is naturally immune to afterburn, they are not immune to fire damage, which means that an overwhelming amount of fire could potentially overwhelm their resistance. 

Black Noir

Although Black Noir is a conventionally very powerful Supe, he has his obvious weaknesses. A big thing about Noir is that he was brain-damaged due to the assault from Soldier Boy, which left him mute as well as intensely emotional. As a result, he often will take a mission very seriously, and unless there is a reason he will often overextend how brutal he is, such as killing civillians. Similar to other Supes, he is also easily exploitable in terms of sound, as they can stun him briefly, and he himself is (unlike other Supes) also more prone to lethal damage due to Compound V not granting him thick enough skin to be wholly bulletproof, although his armor seems to retain that durability. 

Feats

Pyro

Overall

  • A member of Team Fortress, one of the most skilled and powerful mercenary teams in the world.

  • Has fought all across the world taking on many missions.

  • Fought in the large Gravel Wars alongside their mercenary teammates.

  • Took on the role of a CEO after Team Fortress dissipated.

  • Alongside his team, took down threats such as Merasmus, Gray Mann and his robots, the Classic mercenaries, the Horseless Headless Horseman, Monoculus, etc.

  • Threatening enough to strike fear in anyone- including their own team.

Power

Speed

  • Pyro’s fireballs from the Dragon’s Fury and projectiles from the Detonator move at 3,000 hu/s, which translates to 57.15 m/s.

  • Pyro can throw the Gas Passer at 2009.2 hu/s, which translates to 38.28 m/s.

  • Able to airblast projectiles, reacting in time with them (Debatable; See Before the Verdict)

    • The Soldier’s rockets can move at 1,100 hu/s, which translates to 20.955 m/s.

    • The Pyro’s flares can move at 3,000 hu/s, which translates to 57.15 m/s.

    • This includes the Short Circuit, which is intended to be an electricity gun shoots an electricity ball (Inapplicable; See Before the Verdict)

    • This includes the Cow Mangler, a focused Wave Projector, and the Manmelter, a particle smasher. (Inapplicable; See Before the Verdict)

  • Can move in tandem the Ball O’ Lightning, a spell which creates a lightning projectile (Inapplicable; See Before the Verdict)

  • Comparable to mercenaries like Sniper or Scout who can throw their projectile weapons faster than other projectiles (Mach 8.4-38.2 to 9.6-43.6, up to 2.5c) (Inapplicable; See Before the Verdict)

  • Completely superior to robots who, at the start of the Robot War were built to be faster, stronger, and smarter than any combination of any mercenary including their weapons however by the end mercenaries fought off the robots for a year and amassed tons of cash due to having no difficulty taking down robots, easily slaughtering them when Gray Mann gave up due to the stalemate and attacked Mann Co’s profits. 

    • One of the explicitly examples of these robots that they exceeded statistically that was previously superior is the Bonk! Scout who wields the Bonk! Atomic Punch. (Inapplicable; See Before the Verdict)

    • Robots were explicitly displayed to have better reaction time and attack speed than the mercenaries at the beginning of the invasion.

Durability

Black Noir

Overall

  • Regarded as the number one hero after Soldier Boy’s apparent death and even as Homelander was being brought into the spotlight.

  • Has taken on and defeated The Boys, Himiko, and Starlight all on his own.

  • Respected by Homelander, the strongest member of the Seven.

  • Was a member of Payback, a legendary superhero team, and aided in the defeat of Soldier Boy.

  • Really good at the piano. 

  • The name Black Noir strikes fear into every criminal who hears it, because he’s that goated. 

Power

Speed

Durability

Scaling

Pyro

Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2 as a mercenary group is rather notable due to their teamwork, so it’s pretty reasonable to say that Pyro would scale alongside the rest of his cast. He has explicitly shown to be physically stronger than a number of them, which makes it all the more reasonable. 

Saxton Hale

As the VS Hale gamemode might imply, the mercenaries are (surprisingly) able to challenge Saxton Hale, albeit not on equal footing. As a result, they should be comparable to most of his casual showings, but it’s unlikely one single mercenary like Pyro would be able to challenge Hale alone. 

Halloween Bosses

Obviously, Pyro and the Mercenaries fight off Merasmus and the other Halloween creatures every year, so they should scale to them. Not much more to talk about beyond scaling, though.

  • The Necronomicon can detonate mercenaries from the inside.

  • The Horseless Headless Horseman can lift up and throw around a massive Necro Smasher.

Black Noir

The Seven

As you might expect from a member of the Seven, Black Noir should pretty clearly scale to the full capabilities of his team granted the pretty blatant upscaling from Queen Maeve… and not Homelander. While there are arguments you can make for him scaling to a portion of Homelander’s most superbly casual showings in speed, it is very evident that he cannot scale to the full power of Homie since he’s simply built different. 

The Boys

As you might expect for the namesake of the series, Black Noir should pretty evidently scale to the cast of the Boys, including Kimiko and Butcher. This leads to him having pretty direct scaling to their feats, who are surprisingly powerful despite their status as humans… kind of. But we’re not arguing Temp. V scaling here.

The… Others

Although Black Noir himself is not one of the superheroes extensively above any others in the series, due to his reputation as a heavy hitter respected by even Homelander and put beyond Maeve herself, it’s likely he’s far more powerful than most notable heroes. 

Before the Verdict

Pyro

Hammer Units?

As you might have noticed, many iconic “feats” from the game are missing, like Scout throwing Mad Milk “faster than light”. What’s the deal with that?


Hammer units are a measurement in the Source Engine used for all model creation, and is used by developers for a consistent scale between player models, projectiles, maps, and prop sizes. While certain objects do not follow the same ratio, Team Fortress 2 has a specific ratio for its players and projectile speed. Disregarding the arguments for greater speed ends, hammer units in Team Fortress are very explicitly the most reliable measurement we can take in gameplay. While hammer units do not equate to any real world measurement on their own, they are designed with specific ratios in mind to the Imperial measurement system. For example, for projectiles and player speed (as well as most architecture), this is equivalent to a 1 foot : 16 hammer unit ratio. We can explicitly see this is the intention regardless, as not only is this listed on the official Team Fortress 2 wiki (which also translates these to mph on certain pages) but is tied to specific travel achievements for Soldier and Demoman. This is an actual measurement most games in Source typically use, and the Team Fortress Wiki itself is kind enough to drop translations from hammer unit / s to a real world speed equivalent in their player speed section that stays consistent, as someone with an average speed in Team Fortress 2 like Demoman is near the exact average speed for a person. Given hammer unit ratios are used by practically every developer on the source engine and Valve (as we can see in Half Life 2, for example) stays consistent with these measurements across all items, making this far more reliable. On the other hand, because this measurement is explicitly in tandem with the size of the map and its objects, this ratio must stay consistent.


 It is simply not sensical to compare items to a real world counterpart in most scenarios if they have a present real world measurement, such as the Air Strike and the assumed Mach 2.54 speed it has been referenced in speed calculations or comparing it to light and inflating ends from there. Because it inherently contradicts map design and how hammer unit ratios work, the conversion ratio is far more reliable as a way to calculate speed and stays consistent in-game anyways, as arrows (for example) being the fastest projectile move at 57.15 m/s, which is consistent with how real world recurve bows hit around 225 ft/s, or about 68.58 m/s. This is simply more feasible to claim than the idea that bullets and arrows move faster than light or that Sniper can throw Jarate at speeds hitting near Mach 6. While it is true that Team Fortress 2 borders on fantasy because it’s an inherently nonsensical series, this is not evidence that the series cannot be constrained by logic or that developer-used measurement ratios are suddenly invalidated. Most arguments rely on this path of logic for hammer units being a flexible measurement, which is not true, and rely on using real world measurements for comparison despite the fact that hammer units in Team Fortress 2 already have an equivalent to real world dimensions. For this reason, without a stated speed, hammer units take precedence over assumed projectile speeds (unless it is stated, of course)  as it is explicitly meant to be that fast and no greater.

Electricity Speed

Although we did just say that a stated speed is acceptable, there are still caveats to those statements. For example, while the Ball o’ Lightning is called a ball of lightning, it’s not really something that the cast can scale to either. It is a moving ball of electricity surrounded by a field and isn’t necessarily jetting out with projectiles but rather is… just that. That makes it pretty difficult to argue for, as the speed of electricity within a field (where it matters most) can get up to Mach speeds through the air, but no one can outright move in tandem with them due to the creation being presented the frame you shoot out the spell. Thanks to this, it’s kinda impossible to argue for the mercs getting faster for moving in tandem with it since it doesn’t have a real world speed comparison. The magic speeds also have their own inherent speeds, and given the spell in itself only moves at around 1020 hu/s (or 19.4 m/s), it is very unlikely to argue anything higher due to the built-in ratio to measurements and the electricity itself having no basis for speed with real world measurements, nor can it be scaled in speed beyond this due to that very explicit cap.

Grordbort’s FAKE Science

Hey. Did you notice the 12 (exaggerating, it’s more like 5) Before the Verdict sections solely dedicated to Megaton-FTL TF2? Yeah, me too.


When discussing Grordborts, we’ll be more generally referencing the class of energy weapons in TF2 (and the C.A.P.P.E.R), as many of its arguments come down to what the Grordborts weapons are stated to do, and every energy weapon sharing the same kill animation would mean that they pretty much work equally as well. We’ll need to tackle these examples individually and explain the faults in their statements, or general application.




This weapon is often referenced for two reasons. For starters, the “quantum disentanglement” statement references… well, quantum disentanglement. However, quantum disentanglement is not a scientific term. This term can only be stretched as far as affecting atoms. Another thing often pointed out for the Cow Mangler is it being stated to be a “Wave Projector”, implying that it shoots out Electromagnetic waves, which is supported by it disabling machines on detonation.


However, these are very faulty. It is very explicitly stated the Cow Mangler (and the Righteous Bison by extension) merely disintegrate them (without pushing the usage of a science term that literally does not exist), which is far lesser than the forms of subatomic atomization argued. Fundamentally, even if you took quantum disentanglement as literal, it is not something that equals attack potency, as the mere interaction of any force with a particle is defined as breaking entanglement in quesiton. By interacting with the environment, a particle is generally subjected to more “liberties” per se, which means it is more adversely affected by other parts of the system rather than the link between the two particles entangled. Fundamentally, quantum disentanglement is something that everything in our world can do if you take the term literally, as it is simply breaking entanglement, a process that happens when particles interact with the environment. Even the idea that disintegration outright equals vaporization is a bit silly, as disregarding the death animation for a moment as mechanically it is something shared across every weapon, the same publicity blurb also states that you merely reduce enemies to a “slurry of eyeball soup and smoking boots”, which inherently contradicts any argument you could make for quantum disentanglement from this statement granted it evidently is not intended to mean anything. While the Cow Mangler is also referenced as a wave projector and a “wave cannon”, concept art for the Cow Mangler elaborates that the supposed waves are not the same as the “super-heated projectiles” shot out. We evidently see that the Cow Mangler’s shots similarly do not oscillate as if they were waves and simply explode on contact, and this idea that it is a super-heated projectile is rather notable due to its mechanics. Damage from the Cow Mangler’s direct shots are explicitly fire and explosive based, as these shots are impacted by the damage resistance, which further cements against the idea that the Cow Mangler is actually shooting out these waves and not weird science magic from the alternate dimension it comes from. Even if it were shooting out waves, thanks to Team Fortress 2’s official hammerunit speed comparison, there is simply no reason to assume they are moving at speeds exceeding lightspeed. 


Another fault with most calculations in this regard is that the Cow Mangler will require inherently more than one shot to take out any class, as even the charged shot itself is not enough to take out any class (including robots…) without accounting for the afterburn effect unless they are given less health than base. The disintegration (which does not need to inherently equal attack potency, for the record) pretty explicitly can only work when enemies already take damage, and the inherent flaw makes it borderline impossible to apply solid values to because of that mechanic. The fact that the weapons actually disintegrate, rather than the argued vaporization, also prevents any sound arguments from being made as even visually we do not see characters being turned into vapor. We do see them dissipate, however this does not fundamentally equal vaporization. While the official wiki does state vaporization, it also claims that the mercenaries hit turn into ashes before disappearing, only going off of the sound for definition. As a result, it is simply too vague to argue whether or not this is truly vaporization, as statements of disintegration would not necessitate it being the case. For reference in comparison to a series developed side-by-side with Team Fortress 2 that shares this death animation, the Dark Matter in Half-Life functions in a similar regard, as it is not necessarily a form of vaporization with energy. It can explicitly bounce off of stronger targets, factoring in this idea against straight vaporization but just a cool disintegration kill. (Credit to the Combine Overwiki). While we aren’t necessarily arguing that this disintegration is the exact same, it is pretty evident due to the comparable similarities that it isn’t designed with a form of destruction that requires the Cow Mangler to output full-scale energy across your body in mind, nor is it specifically meant to be vaporization, but rather a form of disintegration that comes from deconstruction rather than energy output. This is pretty much in line with the other Grordbort weapons, which similarly target your particles and split connections rather than actively destroy them, establishing that overall the disintegration performed by the Cow Mangler has nothing to do with raw energy. This is more of a less serious point, but it would also be an incredible outlier for any mercenaries to scale to the feats that outright kill them in-game and get far higher than any other narrative showing based off of promotional text. 


All in all, it is simply too vague to categorize as a feat of power due to these factors, and additions like the Cow Mangler needing two shots to kill someone like Pyro. The varied power in general can cause it to require multiple hits which makes it very unreliable to argue for this death animation to be applicable as a feat, as it is the only grounds for giving the Cow Mangler a proper value. The narrative and design implications, as well as comparisons to other Grordbort’s weapons that work on this atomic scale, show that these feats are simply too hard of an outlier to be believable and are far more likely inapplicable to AP due to their nature.  


  • Robots and Game Mechanics


Before we even get into anything else, it should be clarified that death animations should not be regarded as usable for Mann vs. Machine robots. This is a very inflated topic that hasn’t been pointed out, but there are several issues with this usage. While the weapon kills can actively disintegrate enemies, the disintegration when done on big robots is the exact same death animation for smaller ones and faces the (obvious) issue of this death animation being applied to quite literally any of them. This includes reducing robots to ash, and that is no bueno. It is very evident that the death animations shouldn’t actually be used as a metric because it is a mechanic applied to literally every robot even if it doesn’t make sense, as they share their models with the mercenaries and there is no functional reason for the death animations to change unless they intended on it making sense. It is a pretty blatant game mechanic that can disregard most calculations for vaporizing robots as the statements make no reference towards any of them and the feats themselves are only presented on the robots in game due to their mechanical function, while never being present once in anything actually canon. As mentioned prior, the disintegration kill generally just cannot apply to AP anyways, and it is stated within the official Team Fortress 2 wiki to reduce enemies in the animation to ash, both of which further cementing the fact that robots cannot be used as a gauge for power as they inherently inflate the numbers due to them not being coded against kills with the intention of them actually being made of metal. We also see that in the Mann vs. Machine cinematic, The Sound of Medicine, the vaporization effect you would typically see in game is replaced with the same death animation instead lifting up the robots and blowing them up rather than any special effect, which showcases that the “vaporization” referenced in most calculations isn’t even intentional for the robots, it’s just easier to manage mechanically for the game than making a new animation specifically for Mann vs. Machine for an admittedly really minor consistency fix.


And no, tanks cannot be used, as they are intentionally very tanky and do not share the kill animation anyways.


  • Invisible Particle Smashers


This is moreso regarding speed, although more specific examples will be tackled in a moment. A big point that needs to be made clear is that an Indivisible Particle Smasher doesn't inherently equate near lightspeed. This was always assumed due to being a “particle accelerator” but the acceleration itself doesn't need to reach near the speed of light, so this is ultimately baseless. A particle accelerator functions by running incredibly small masses at high speeds, but larger masses do not necessarily need to function this way and can be a smaller fraction of the speed of light. Inherently, because the examples of particle accelerators in TF2 lack the distinct characteristics of actual particle accelerators (no projectile acceleration, no mass increase in projectiles as a result of acceleration, lack of orbital movement once out of the acceleration itself) makes it really difficult to actively argue in favor of it. While it is true that an atom smasher is quite common of a nickname for a particle accelerator, it is also called that because of the process that happens within particle accelerators– namely, the atom smashing bit. Given there is no reason to actually assume that particles shot out are actively moving close to lightspeed, the name in itself could also generally reference the nature of energy weapons (in which every example of a particle smasher exists in) and their deaths. In addition, this is a generic name given to both the Manmelter, a weapon explicitly stated to atomize people (although there are caveats), and the Pomson 6000, a weapon which shoots out “rapid pulses of cross-spectrum radiation”, which shows that it doesn’t really mean anything about the mechanics when two entirely different weapons can be defined as the same thing. This is more notable because even the Manmelter, which can actively follow the definition of atom smasher, was not designed with that in mind but rather a sci-fi ray gun that shoots out waves of energy. Neither item can actually fit the definition of a particle accelerator, but have more grounds as a particle smashing gun because it vaporizes people. In addition, both weapons pretty explicitly act overtime, as the Manmelter is explicitly stated to superheat something to thie point of sub-atomization and the Pomson is only used to dissolve objects with several shots.



Like other examples, the Manmelter is very contradictory. As we’ve talked about the nature of the Indivisible Particle Smasher statement, we’ll have to tackle more in regards to the atomization/vaporization/disintegration whatever part.


A big issue with the general application of most of these feats inherently is because they do not align with gameplay necessarily, but the fault for the Manmelter is quite the opposite. The Manmelter, like the Cow Mangler, states that it turns people into soup by attacking their molecules, which is consistent with the atomization statement. On a similar note, the game brings up how it rips apart molecules a square mile radius in its description, which could be consistent with both but would make more sense to follow with the prior atomization point. However, it is very unlikely that it would actually scale regardless of either end. While it is not explicitly stated, the main gimmick of the Manmelter is that the Pyro gets crits upon extinguishing an enemy, and its critical hits can kill most of the light classes in the game accounting for afterburn. This makes it very useful as a finishing tool, which means that the actual application of the weapon in its atomization needs to otherwise account for how it needs to deal more damage to actually succeed in atomizing someone if it is doing all of the work. The inherent fault with atomization in this context is that the “reducing enemies to cinder” part is way more consistent with other weapons in the combo, which explicitly do not reduce enemies to cinder out of sheer energy but blatant durability negation. The Phlogistinator awakens elements of “Phlogiston” inside of people which incinerates people and the Third Degree is stated to burn each individual atom in its cleaves, sharing the same death application. While it is true that it can atomize enemies, we can evidently see that weapons like the Third Degree explicitly negate durability by burning atoms directly than actually outputting the energy to separate all atoms at once, and is similarly applicable to the Phlogistinator which merely alters matter more than separating them. While it is true that it is verbatim “atomization”, it is very unlikely to be fully atomizing a person at once, and other cases of the death animation showcase that the effects of atomization need to be done overtime while official descriptions explain that it is done by heating up someone to the point of “sub-atomization” making it very unlikely that it is actually sub-atomizing a target by breaking bonds but rather… being really hot (disregarding that robots can withstand it, and the melting point of steel is far lesser, making it very questionable about the application of this idea). Furthermore, due to the nature of these being overtime weapons or those with rather weak damage in single attacks (with the exception of the Third Degree, who can do high burst damage thanks to its mechanic), they need to function overtime, as simply looking at their damage values would make it nonsensical to say they are shooting one of your fellow mercenaries or an enemy astronaut once and turning them into ashes. Even if the Manmelter was applicable, its atomization statements would be rather difficult to argue for irregardless due to the fact that it is showcased in actual combat to reduce enemies to ash instantly in its death animation, which should only get 0.06 Tons of TNT. As you literally cannot reduce steel to ash, the application of robots to these death animations cannot work either.  


  • C.A.P.P.E.R


Not really much we need to talk about here. “Electromagnetic raygun” does not really mean anything, and its name is pretty explicitly a gag about movies. Even if it were supposedly shooting electromagnetic rays or something of that sort, no one can actually move in tandem with it and scaling arguments like Mann vs. Machine (which will be discussed momentarily) have holes you can very easily poke holes through. The death animation in itself should only get 0.06 Tons of TNT, however it faces an even greater problem than other weapons because it does very little damage, meaning that it requires even more shots to actually pull off turning enemies into char unless targeting on a damaged enemy already. 


  • Radiation!!


The Pomson 6000 is stated to shoot “rapid pulses of high amplitude cross-spectrum radiation”. Disregarding the -28% firing speed and such, the Pomson doesn’t really… do that.


For starters, the weapon in itself literally cannot function as a radiation-based weapon and is very explicitly based on energy. Radiation in itself cannot function as a “particle smasher” as based on the weapon’s name, nor can it vaporize people unless it were enveloping them with energy akin to a nuclear explosion. Even under the idea that it goes off the idea of particle radiation, then you simply lose out on the idea that the radiation (as it is often pushed for) is lightspeed and can vary to hit nearly any speed in turn. “Cross-spectrum” radiation just does not exist as a concept anywhere, and ideas like “high amplitude radiation” are completely contradictory when they are put in the context of the energy of an electromagnetic wave like radiation, granted it literally means nothing about how much energy is within a wave. Given that none of its words actually have anything to do with radiation (and within the context of its power, as seen in the item description) beyond the word, well, radiation, it’s very easy to simply point out the fact that this weapon does not function like that. Mechanically, it is pretty evidently not radiation regardless of what the game says in an item description, and the fact that it gets referred to as a Sub-Atomic Wave Gun (a concept which only exists in the behavior of wave-like particles and not waves in itself) proves that the weapon as a whole is just a bunch of words strewn together that don’t really have any correlation. 


Even if you could make a sensical idea out of the radiation from the wording that aligns with real science, given that it likely doesn’t even follow the basis of electromagnetic waves (radiation which is light) and specifically follows the case of particle radiation, which depending on the energy output does not need to explicitly hit relativistic speeds, it is unlikely to be that fast. It is in turn more reliable to look at the Pomson’s speed in-game than to give it an arbitrary speed off of a few buzzwords. Given the Pomson’s shots move at 1200 hu/s in game, they should be equal to 22.86 meters per second, which is far slower than the speed of light.


Overall, the Grordborts weapons are just objectively very inconsistent. They use very random buzzwords to describe their capabilities that do not align with one another, as one statement will claim the weapons in question can turn you into a slurry or soup, while another will state it can atomize you across a square mile, and then another says it can dissolve pyramids across a week. Weapons like the Pomson or Manmelter explicitly function with applications unusable for attack potency by either dissolving or superheating their targets sub-atomically (if even applicable), while weapons like the Cow Mangler target your internal structure. We have outright seen that the damage by weapons is done internally, and canonically robots cannot face the kill animation shared by all energy weapons, merely exploding when met by these sorts of energy attacks that attack their internals. While these weapons could be useful tools for taking down a target of comparable strength, it is pretty explicit that they cannot be reliable durability negation tools akin to concepts like the HF-Blade, as they need multiple shots to actively perform this kill animation anyways and are all in one way or another more of a form of durability negation rather than sheer energy output. Every example of lightspeed is in one way or another problematic due to their misalignment with the real scientific concepts and inconsistencies, as well as the hard-cap on speed in-series that has every weapon’s supposed lightspeed projectiles moving at comparable speeds or exceeding one another if you truly interpreted them as lightspeed. Given this natural problem of “something supposedly moving near lightspeed (particle accelerator) exceeds light (wave projector or Pomson 6000)”, it is very inconsistent and could still be passed off as an outlier due to the issues presented in Team Fortress 2’s narrative. 

Carnival of Carnage Storm

R>F TRANSCENDENCE

In Carnival of Carnage, a map which is hosted by Merasmus, the main gimmick of the map is collecting tickets to enable the machine. In turn, this causes a huge storm to be erupted from the center before you are teleported away. This is a feat often interpreted with the idea that Merasmus is responsible, but is pretty explicitly not the case.


For starters, the storm is not necessarily a “storm” in a literal sense. It is pretty explicitly a wave of souls that are spread out, and is very notable because this is regarded as a period in time where the worlds between mortals and the next (spirit realm), especially as ghosts within Team Fortress 2 are pretty explicitly intangible and should lack mass. We also know that the teleportation between the realms in gameplay is powered by said souls, which pretty evidently shows that this isn’t necessarily a literal storm but rather one created by these massless souls, making KE impossible to find. The area itself is also an ancient Sumerian burial ground, and is something pretty explicitly noted when Merasmus talks about the Strongmann game, which the Strongmann game itself raises the dead in order to teleport away the cast. It is pretty simply evident within the context of the map that Merasmus is not the one responsible for this, but rather the machine raises a bunch of spirits in quick succession that allows the souls to be used to teleport away the mercenaries. While it is pretty impressive for the timeframe irregardless, the lack of the mass for the souls and the impossibility for anyone to outright scale makes this feat unusable.

Merasmus Magic (Halloween stuff in general, really…)

On a similar note, Merasmus’ power is very unlikely to be able to scale to the mercenaries in general. One of the big issues with scaling magic in general for Merasmus, as well as the mercenaries, is that, unlike other series, these spells are not an innate power for the mercs nor is it a power that Merasmus himself can bust out whenever he wants. He pretty explicitly needs to cite from spellbooks, for example, and many of the spells are otherwise drawn from another realm entirely. The general fault with this is that, while the mercenaries can withstand certain parts of Merasmus’ arsenal of spells, it is pretty evident that they shouldn't scale to vaguely everything he can do just for fighting the guy. In a similar regard, it is very evident that Merasmus is not actively responsible for the spells and thus should not scale, as they are only accessible during Halloween time due to the fact that spells leaking into the world is as a result of the Witching Hour, which weakens the “wall between worlds”. 


As a whole for Team Fortress 2’s Halloween events, everything only comes out during that time for a similar reason, and this is why something like the immortal MONOCULUS is able to keep coming back from the dead. For this reason, it’s very evidently something Merasmus is not responsible for the creation of nor is something he can scale to normally due to not showcasing these spells, making it impossible to argue for the mercenaries to scale to them without examples in gameplay. In a similar regard, there are several issues for the spells within their application, namely because of the Meteor Shower spell. 


With the fact set straight that these spells do not come from a mystical energy system within the mercenaries but are rather drawn from the sheets and spellbooks, it is very unlikely the mercenaries scale to these inherently by using them. A bigger problem for the spells, however, is that there are many inherent problems with their application. 


An example that comes to mind as mentioned is the Meteor Shower which has been calculated to hit around 203.32 Kilojoules - 16.14 Tons of TNT. While there is an obviously more applicable low-end, giving any sort of lee-way to the high-end might seem like a simple avenue to push towards Large Building - City Block level. The main scaling argument is that mercenaries are able to withstand damage, but the main issue within it is that the spell is all-round lethal. It deals about 100 damage per second without the mercenaries getting directly hit by the meteors in question, making it very questionable as to why an attack that can deal more than half of a player’s health just by being near it would be consistent to scale. Another inherent fault is that mercenaries, as mentioned, evidently cannot withstand the full impact of a single meteor nor the full onslaught point-blank. We can see this in gameplay, as even the toughest classes in-game will get killed even at the outer edges of its blast radius where meteors won’t hit them directly. It is simply egregious for the cast to scale as these are spells produced by external means and can kill them instantly, making it unusable even within the lower end and especially inapplicable with the higher ends due to the sizable outlier it brings for assuming that these are actually moving at the speed of meteors. As a result, this feat is wholly inapplicable to the mercenaries.

Yeti… Fraud?

Most people who are familiar enough with the Yeti are very likely already aware that the scaling doesn’t work. This is very simple to look past, due to the statement having no real significance in scaling and the Yeti visibly being portrayed as bulletproof in Mercenary Park, which is the farthest that the statement should be pushed. So, unlike some blogs, the Yeti is not getting Moon level scaling. There has been more pushing for the Yeti to be applied to every weapon and feat beyond the outliers, but given the very simple unreliability of the statement at hand, being contradicted within the scene itself, and having no avenue to scale to even the most basic of Team Fortress 2 feats, this statement is simply unusable.

Nuke Scaling

A recent argument that came out for Team Fortress 2 was for the map Megaton, where there is a nuke present on it. Disregarding that winning the map causes the nuke to detonate, killing everyone on both teams unless you exploit glitches, a common argument made is that Engineer actually scales… because his sentry can. This is a very obvious issue, due to the fact that the only grounds for it surviving is because the sentry is not destroyed by the explosion. There is an obvious issue with the application even if it weren’t a game mechanic, but a huge problem is surface area. The sentry themselves don’t take any damage regardless and the explosion deals no damage to anything but players, so the feat in itself is already questionable. Once you factor in that the sentry can survive it from any distance makes it clear this isn’t durability based, and the explosion in itself is simply not that impressive in scale. Even if it were, the nuke is not nearly as impressive as most people would imply, as the full air blast (which is impressive) gets to around 3 Tons of TNT. For the portion that the Sentry can survive, it only gets 0.002 Tons of TNT, and otherwise within the air blast value it can only get 0.5 Tons of TNT, all without regarding any square area that should one-hundred percent be applied to the explosion. Even with arguing that it could withstand it at the epicenter (which it evidently should not be able to) the blast is just not notable enough at the ground level compared to its mushroom cloud. As a result, this feat is inapplicable.  

Mountain Level Scout

During Blood in the Water, Heavy and Scout make their way towards one of the last Australium deposits on Earth, where they locate Ayer’s Rock. In a silly moment of Scout misjudging, he insinuates that it’s the real Ayer’s Rock instead of a secret location, and pushes it. It is shown to be a hollow shell, and the assumption is that Scout pushed the whole shell aside by accident. This line of logic is, evidently, not the case.


We can explicitly see that the location of the whole rock is unaffected, with there being no marks on the ground when we pan to see the whole shell. We also see in the scene where Scout pushes it that the indication of movement seems to only be applied to the loose part that Heavy moves aside which he had been looking for. Thus, it is very unlikely he actually pushed the replica. Additionally, this feat would just be narratively nonsensical to apply. The gag about the scene is that Scout believes he pushed the mountain but did not actually, and it’s a one-off joke that leads into them entering Ayer’s Rock. The calculation also assumes that the replication of Ayer’s Rock is the same size, which we can see is evidently not true within the next scene as construction equipment takes a moderate size of it’s length and the mountain simply isn’t literally 200 times larger than Scout and Heavy in height. We can pretty explicitly see this given Heavy traces around the “mountain” and it is not portrayed to be of the realistic portions. Knowing Team Fortress 2, where Abraham Lincoln was rocket-jumping and the whole concept of Australium, this is far from the most egregious thing they’ve done in the series This feat has otherwise been notably calculated before with comic-portrayed sizes, which gets up to a measly 705 Kilojoules when compared to the hundreds of tons value pushed for in the original calculation. Within this same blog, without the inflated values used for Ayer’s Rock’s height and size, the feat would still only get around 3 Tons of TNT. 


With all of this in mind, it is pretty evident that this feat should not be as high as the calculation implies. Many of its aspects do inflate the measurements, and with either comic-demonstrated application or assumptions regarding IRL sizes, it gets much lower than anticipated. It is much more reliable to go off of the 715 Kilojoule end, however, as Ayer’s Rock is portrayed as far smaller than it would be if it were an actual 1:1 duplicate. Given Ayer’s Rock is also a rather large mountain which spans over kilometers in width and the actual size inside the shell barely spans over hundreds of feet (given that an excavator could take up a notable portion of its length), this is way more sensical. It is also far more feasible to argue for the 715 Kilojoule end being applicable due to it being consistent with where Team Fortress 2 gets in statistics, whereas the 3 Ton end gets far higher than any other feat that the mercenaries scale to directly… 

Train Feat

… Besides one, kinda? A really popular feat from Team Fortress 2 in the (admittedly canon) End of the Line cinematic, Heavy stops a train thanks to the invincibility from Medic. Heavy comes out of it unscathed, and most calculations for him stopping the train assume he fully halts the kinetic energy of the train. While it is true that Heavy could be doing this with his physical power, it is very evidently not something he is doing in this clip.


Contextually, Heavy braces for impact from the train and Medic immediately assumes that Heavy is going to die, and Übers him as a result. This is very explicitly an impact feat, and relies on the fact Heavy was given invulnerability to withstand the impact at all. As the force from the train hits Heavy, it would not require him to exert out the same force via sheer power that others argue but rather withstand the force that can crush him, which the invulnerability from Über can explicitly grant as it is presented as making anyone under its effects invulnerable to blunt force. The easiest comparison that can be made is like catching a gold bar being dropped down to yiu, and how the force it applies to you is great enough that it might just crush your hands and the ground, but an ÜberCharge would allow you to withstand your hands being crushed into the ground without injury, the latter not necessarily requiring you to match the kinetic energy of the gold bar but being able to withstand the force to catch it. Given this is a feat that relies on Heavy being durable enough to withstand it, that alone would be enough evidence against the feat since he becomes invulnerable to damage. However, there are greater issues to the calculation.


For starters, the calculation in itself assumes Heavy scales to the full kinetic energy for the train, which is evidently nowhere near the case. Not only is he pushed back by the cart and doesn’t halt it entirely, but every cart retains the same momentum and charges forward at such speeds that it would likely kill Medic and Scout, hence why Scout has to save Medic from a flying train cart. There have been other calculations for the weight withstood, such as the full train weight hitting 764,698 Kilograms, which is nearly 9 times lesser than what was calculated in the original. This makes it rather inconsistent as to what the weight of the train car actually is, and would lessen the kinetic energy immensely. In tandem, given Heavy only actually stops one of train cars, he very evidently does not withstand the full kinetic energy of the train, and would make the value far too inaccurate. Given Heavy derails the train, it is very unlikely he was even pushed on by those forces directly as several of the carts snap away and fly off without decelerating in contact. 


While it is a very impressive feat visually, Heavy has no reason to outright scale physically. The factor of him even pulling off the feat was because he was invulnerable and would still not scale to the value presented in the equation because he does not withstand the full kinetic energy of the train, and only derails the rest of the train after withstanding the force of the front cart hitting him with the rest of its kinetic energy staying intact. Even when buying into it, it is in turn one of the highest Team Fortress 2 feats and is narratively problematic due to the fact that Heavy would have likely just died from the feat without Medic’s life-saving invulnerability. Heavy generally not withstanding the full kinetic energy of the train and being explicitly pushed back by it without being able to stop it supports the idea that he simply wasn’t physically holding it back, but rather took the energy and tanked it solely due to his invulnerability.

Bonk! Atomic Stretches

Given prior stances on calculations, many of the high-ends for Bonk! Atomic Punch are simply unfeasible, so… Can Pyro scale anyways?


While this has been an argument made before by other parties, it is simply unfeasible to argue that Bonk can be upscaled by someone like Saxton because he didn’t notice an employee drank it, as Scout in particular is the only character in the series who actively gets amplified by Bonk! Atomic Punch. On the other hand, while it is true that there are statements of the Mann vs. Machine robots being able to exceed any combination of the mercenaries and the mercenaries were in turn greater than them (demonstrably applying to speed and strength), there are zero grounds to say that this means you can upscale them from an amp you can pretty evidently still be caught by in Mann vs. Machine’s gameplay loop with Bonk! Robot Scouts. While there are some stances on it still being applicable, Bonk! is simply on another level of speed that no one in Team Fortress 2 can necessarily match, which does make speed admittedly more consistent on the low-end. 

Cosmetic Statements


No lol.


A lot of the grounds for cosmetic statements being applicable in Team Fortress 2 is the basis that the series is silly enough for this to be acceptable– but this is really not the case. Many cosmetics beyond the Track Terrorizer (a very notable example) are non-serious, and other blogs have further scrutinized the idea of applying item descriptions, such as Capejedi’s Gray Mann vs Sturm which tackles the issue with the Cross-Comm Express that we simply can’t word better. Statements like “breaking the sound barrier” for Scout are similarly fairly unfounded and are inconsistent with the fact he moves at a speed nowhere near that either in-game or in animation, although you could surely push for the statement “as fast as a cheetah” since he probably can hit those speeds… just not on his own, or without amplifications, which Pyro would not scale to directly due to being far slower and otherwise exceeds through more impressive showings of combat speed than Scout’s max running speed. 

Explosive Reactions

A feat that was floating around for a bit was Demoman’s explosives, where in Meet the Demoman he can be seen “moving in tandem” with them. In the beginning cinematic, he is jumping forward, hopping out of the opening in the wall. If you do take it frame by frame, he is technically moving in a fraction of the second his explosions detonate, however is simply not applicable to speed.


A big flaw within its application is that Demoman already has a canon movement speed, which is 280 hu/s (thank you Team Fortress 2 wiki…), or equivalent to 5.3 m/s, which is pretty accurate to your average walking speed. It is pretty inflated to generally argue any higher than this, as while it is usually a precedence of “feats over gameplay”, it is not narratively consistent either. The calculation goes off of Demoman jumping out and the free-fall to be him moving in tandem with a single frame of the explosion’s distance, making it very faulty to argue given it relies on this single frame of in tandem movement with Demoman jumping to argue he is moving that fast actively. As a result, it is also not necessarily consistent within the narrative and especially not Meet the Demoman, as you would need to push for the idea that Demoman swinging his leg can equate to him being able to then move and react at Mach speeds, which is by itself very contradictory to Team Fortress 2’s overall showings. Not only is it an egregious outlier but comes from a really silly “in tandem feat” that does not make any consistency within scaling.

Airblast

Now for “the best” for last, which is Pyro’s airblast. The main application for speed is that it can deflect projectiles at enemies and requires reactive firing, meaning that Pyro scales to the rockets and upwards to Mach speeds. There are a few faults with scaling, but the main caveat that is notable is the speed scaling itself. Without the usage of hammer unit scaling, which gets absurd numbers like a revved up Brass Beast Heavy being faster than Usain Bolt, it becomes much more difficult to argue favorably for how fast an airblast can get. It is stated to be a deflection to projectiles, but you do not demonstrably need to be reacting to the speed of the missiles to pull a trigger before they hit you. Thanks to Team Fortress 2’s rather cartoony designs, it is also pretty difficult to judge how the airblast actually gets triggered, so it becomes even more difficult to judge speed. Due to these issues in the design, while it should be wholly accurate to say “Pyro reacts to these missiles”, there are many faults to it as a feat. Furthermore, a bigger problem for Team Fortress 2 and this Airblast is that it is indeed aim dodging, making it impossible (namely due to zero appearances outside of the game) to properly put numbers not onto it. This is a similar case to weapons like the Short Circuit or Medic’s shield which are built around protecting Engineer or Medic’s team, but are not feasible to scale because of their behavior in game.


For the sake of Pyro’s speed, we will reference his high-ends off of Airblasting, but there are several reasons why we had to default to scaling to the projectile speed in itself rather than any calculation. Without the feat, it is pretty hard to gauge where the series sits because otherwise Team Fortress 2 lacks any really notable speed feats. There are vastly more grounds for Team Fortress 2 to sit below bullet timing as a whole, namely due to a variety of examples such as Spy being caught off guard by getting shot, the Sniper being whiffed by bullets and having to duck away (he should’ve used his FTL reactions to blitz…), getting blitzed by robots with weapons comparable to their own, Engineer getting caught by Spy’s revolver when trying to intercept him, and the BLU Spy getting caught by a shotgun shell to the face. The entirety of Bonk! Atomic Punch, where it is impressive for Scout to be able to dodge bullets and rockets, does further support this idea that the verse simply cannot just scale to their weapons in reaction speed overall. We aren’t necessarily the type of blog to couple anti-feats with actual showings, but the general tone and style of the cast explicitly shows that they aren’t really bullet timers or even react to their own weaponry often if at all. As a result, even with the usage of Airblasting, the highest ends you can pull up with come down to the in-game movement speed with its comparable real world ratio. This scores Pyro around 57 m/s at his highest reaction speed if you argued he does indeed react to his own projectiles, and otherwise should hit around 38.28 m/s at minimum thanks to the Gas Passer and its throwing speed being equatable to how fast Pyro can punch a guy. 

Embargo Payload

In Embargo, you can survive the payload explosion, which is often translated to a durability feat. However… it’s pretty explicitly not valid. Just to point out, the whole point of the payload’s explosion is that it’s just an animation for it blowing up and spreading paint everywhere, so it’s not intentionally deadly. While it is explosive as well, the calculation uses pressure within the explosive as if it were lethal– and it is not. Thanks to VS Battle Wiki’s measurements for pressure used in the equation, a more proper recalculation of the explosion would get to 0.001 Tons of TNT. That is, with the highball of 1 psi, which would be enough to spread the paint but can also hurt people, which the explosion does not. With a lower end of the minimum, this value can slide down to 83 Kilojoules, but it’s really just not a calculation worth diving into because it is already low enough at its highball to just not matter. 

Sentry Buster

The Sentry Buster is a really simple enemy in Mann vs. Machine who detonates on activation with a (in-game) modified Ullapool Caber. It is able to create a massive explosion as a result, which you would assume the mercenaries can scale to. However, this is not necessarily true. The Sentry Buster deals damage that outright negates a mercenary’s durability (which we’ve seen rolling around as 4-5x max health). Mechanically, a mercenary can only survive it non-point blank, and many players generally reference that you need to have full crit resist and overheal in order to survive it, yet not even within the epicenter. Even for robots, beyond the Giants that take a set amount of damage, namely for balancing purposes (and far above the damage rate any singular class can dish out and in turn survive), they are similarly one-shot, making it much more consistent granted that the robots were built in mind to exceed the mercenaries during the Gravel War. Simply put, even if the Sentry Buster’s explosion could be survived, it requires extreme preparation and resistances built in to survive the detonation outside of its epicenter, which is where the mercenaries would actually be able to scale to the full explosion’s value. With this in mind, the fully-buffed mercenaries would merely be taking 1.8 Megajoules - 0.0045 Tons of TNT, making this feat inapplicable for the full end and being otherwise not that notable. 

SAXTON HALEEE Downscaling, my Beloved

A feat that came up during research is the numerous feats that came out as a result of VSH, which we do believe generally are applicable. He can create explosions with one of his super moves, which was calculated to be around 0.08 Tons of TNT, and can survive a volcanic eruption in which accounting for surface area brings it down to 0.2 Tons of TNT. There are still prevalent issues with applying these, however.


At the beginning of every round in the map Outburst, Saxton Hale is ejected out of a volcano, which gives that 0.2 Ton value. This feat is likely fine on its own, but it is very unlikely any of the mercenaries can individually scale to it unless it were supported by other feats as quite inherently, Saxton Hale in Outburst is more than likely amplified in power. While the mercenaries can fight and defeat him, it takes a very much combined effort and he is able to individually one-shot mercenaries with his casual punches, making him a very lethal combatant and simply overpowering them in every regard. As a result, it’s not likely that the mercenaries can really scale to this feat given Hale is simply far too built differently for an individual mercenary without buffs can really take him on. Not only is he two-shotting them with his very basic blows or one-shotting even the strongest mercenaries (in comparison to Pyro, such as Heavy) when actually putting his all into a punch, but he was able to one-shot the Yeti that straight up no diffs Pyro and company, further making a direct scaling or even downscaling from such a high feat questionable given they need extensive teamwork to take on Hale merely to the point of him fleeing (as the main VSH gamemode takes place before the Mercenaries were fired and were sent after him by Gray Mann, yet fail). The 0.2 Ton value is also, funnily enough, the highest value you can push for the mercenaries that isn’t from an explosive, which makes it very inconsistent to use and could totally be written off as an outlier even with downscaling. In turn, Saxton’s “explosive punch” faces a similar problem in that mechanically it one-shots any non-buffed target given it does 326 damage on a direct hit (its epicenter), and inherently deals less damage due to the rest coming down to its shockwave as well as accounting for in-game surface area. You could apply it to the mercenaries specifically with buffs or scale with surface area, but it does not make the feat notable enough as a result to be pointed out.


Overall, the mercenaries simply cannot scale to either of Saxton’s greatest showings as individuals, as they one-shot them or have narrative reasons not to scale even when fighting Saxton in VSH at their best. Even if you were to scale them, it is over ten times greater than some of their better feats and instead lines up value-wise with similar feats I.E the Sentry Buster that can one-shot them.

Maeve vs. Homelander Scaling (and Groundhawk, too, I guess)

Does Maeve really scale to Homelander? Does Black Noir scale to Homelander? Does everyone scale to Homelander?! The short answer is not necessarily. The long answer is yes, but to a specific degree.


As you should expect, Black Noir does pretty explicitly scale to Maeve. Not only is he much stronger than Starlight, who is portrayably similar to Maeve in strength (although Maeve is greater), but he is very much faster, being able to take Starlight on without her being able to defend herself, and Maeve needing to take Black Noir off guard for her attack to count against him. Maeve and Black Noir have both shown impressive means of keeping up with Homelander… in speed. Other characters lesser than them, like Stormfront, have similarly been able to keep up with Homie, albeit not necessarily with the intent to kill.  


Maeve herself was actually able to pretty accurately keep up with Homelander in combat, as she could keep up with Homelander when he was admittedly holding back in the first part of their fight, and when she was overwhelmed by Homelander not holding back, it was visually only due to the strength disadvantage. Even once Homelander stopped holding back with the intention to likely kill her, she outright was able to intercept his charge at her and knock him back before running to Soldier Boy. While you could use this in turn to argue she is as strong as Homie, and her surviving Soldier Boy’s explosion is supporting evidence, the issue is that Soldier Boy is demonstrably a problem for Homie moreso for his superpower being able to nullify his own, rather than outright one-shotting him because of the strength gap. As a result, you can scale Maeve to Soldier Boy’s explosion and argue she downscales Homelander (making him bleed with her punches) in strength, but that has a few leaps in scaling compared to her very safely scaling to Homelander in speed. Black Noir was also able to directly face off against Homelander in his teenage hero years too, having showcased dodging his attacks through his agility and being able to disappear from his sightlines when obscuring his vision before Homelander could locate him, which supports this idea that he would at least be comparable in speed. However, because Black Noir and Maeve are both evidently less powerful than Homelander, there are a lot of caveats with arguing them scaling to his higher-end feats, such as Round 1’s calculation for Homelander being stated to be able to level cities, making it impossible place them in this ballpark. 


We do, however, have a few feats that we believe were interesting to bring up. Notably, Groundhawk (a literally random Supe) was able to fight the Nubians, who’s powers are very likely comparable to thunderbolts that emit five billion joules in a single lightning strike (which lasts a hundredth of a second) given they were able to literally create one. If taken at a face value, Groundhawk was shown to be able to withstand their powers across three-and-a-half seconds… twice! This was calculated to hit around 139 Tons of TNT, and while that is much higher than most other feats presented for The Boys, this idea of downscaling from Homelander’s strength could make it consistent. If you do disagree with the idea that Homelander isn’t a city buster, then the feat does become inconsistent, but would in turn support ends for Homelander’s statement that get pretty high, around Mach 1,090. This could still support the Nubian feats, as Groundhawk dodging lightning was similarly calculated to hit around Mach 637, which would in turn support the idea of a speed feat that come below Homelander’s best showings but is consistent enough for people at least comparable to a casual Homelander can scale to. This is moreso in regards to how you look at the feats in question, but is a potent upgrade for stats if you buy into the Nubian supes shooting out real lightning regardless of whether or not you tie it to strength or speed, although that in itself is interpretational. Granted this is case-by-case depending on how you look at Homelander’s own feats for whether or not these feats are outliers, this doesn’t really impact other feats, as Black Noir should at least hit the value of other feats presented even if you disregard Groundhawk as a whole. As a result, there grounds to say that Groundhawk’s higher-end feats are more consistent thanks to downscaling from Homelander, although they pretty clearly do not scale to his showings at his best.


Overall, technically yes, the cast scales to Homelander to some degree. While they explicitly are not strong enough, there are several examples of characters much lesser than Homelander in strength like Maeve or Black Noir himself keeping up with the guy in both combat and dodging his flight, especially an enraged Homelander for the former, who would be incidentally pushing himself to a limit to some degree that makes speed scaling more consistent. For this reason, Black Noir should scale at least to Homelander’s speed feats, which can score at its highest double-digit Mach speeds. If you do buy into strength downscaling, however, this leads to feats like Groundhawk’s durability (139 Tons of TNT) or him dodging lightning (Mach 637) to become consistent depending on whether or not you buy into Homelander’s city levelling feat as a strength measurement (Hundreds of Tons - Single digit Kilotons range) or a speed measurement (Around Mach 1,090) due to Groundhawk’s feats being weak enough to not rival Homelander’s feats outright or fast enough to be consistent with characters keeping up with Homie’s speed and not strength. Granted this is very supportive of the stat hierarchy, we’re inclined not to sweep these feats under the rug as outliers, although they are very much high-ends for Noir’s stats and should not be taken as the end-all be-all stats for The Boys characters who are not on Homelander’s level.. 

Verdicts

Valve

Hey guys, Valve again. I know last time I said that user verdicts were a one time thing, but a lot of friends wanted to accompany me on writing this blog, so I obliged. This matchup has had a huge personal attachment to me, especially as I was like a day one shiller for it and wrote the first set of connections for the matchup. I hope you guys enjoyed the actual blog, minding the massive size of the Before the Verdict, since we just wanted to make sure that most of the frankly ridiculous and inflated ends were knocked down a peg. Anyways, let us dive into it.


 Statistics


Both Black Noir and Pyro are pretty strong, fit with extensive strength feats. On their own, Pyro and Noir fit in the same department of stats roughly, as they are both relatively superhuman and easily overpower any “normal” person. As a low-end, Pyro and Noir both scale relative to pretty high kilojoule amounts, and normally should be in a similar fraction of a ton of TNT value. When you actually look into it, however, the numbers do tell a different story.


The greater feats that Pyro can scale to outright is around 0.007 to 0.01 Tons of TNT, as several feats within the series hit this mark. Various explosions that the characters survive hit this mark, with Soldier’s upgraded rockets getting around this level alongside Scout surviving a slew of three rockets and wrangled sentries withstanding trains getting rammed into them. One of the greatest feats that Pyro can scale to is Saxton Hale punching through a wall with Scout in his arms, which lands up to 0.01 Tons of TNT. This is further supported by the Black Box, which can reduce enemies to ash equating to 0.05 Tons of TNT, or 0.025 Tons of TNT if dividing it by the 2 shots needed to actually kill someone. This is a bit odd to use a main feat because it comes from a small blurb from Mann Co. which are evidently not the best, but the C.A.P.P.E.R is also able to perform this as well under a similar basis of needing multiple shots to actually wholly kill a target and turn them to ash.


On the other hand, Black Noir gets in a general range of 0.1-0.4 Tons of TNT overall, although scaling to Queen Maeve could push him up to 1.03 Tons of TNT. With the direct feat of Naqib, he produced an explosion worth a tenth of a ton, which can be directly corroborated with feats like Golden Boy, who can vaporize people into smoke with his power, and Lamplighter, who could vaporize doors worth 0.4 Tons of TNT. This is not far from Queen Maeve, who herself directly withstood one of Soldier Boy’s explosions worth 1.03 Tons of TNT, with Black Noir being outright comparable to her given she was struggling to restrain him and was implied to have been knocked out by him before. Given Maeve was able to survive such an explosion, you could very likely scale her to explosions that Soldier Boy performs in general, giving an avenue to scale all the way up to 2.2 Tons of TNT off of Soldier Boy’s other examples of explosions.


Even disregarding the Soldier Boy feat with Maeve (which is very explicit and direct scaling), Black Noir consistently scales nearly ten times greater than Pyro in strength. At their highest without said feat, Pyro would score at least around 0.025 Tons of TNT, which is 4x weaker than Naqib’s explosion and 16x weaker than Lamplighter’s door vaporization. Once you draw in the end for Queen Maeve, even if you scale Pyro to the full extent of the Black Box/C.A.P.P.E.R, Black Noir lands around 20.6x stronger than Pyro even without the potential 2.2 Tons of TNT scaling being brought into it. But, hey, strength isn’t everything, so what about speed?


Pyro has really simple speed arguments, as he can either scale to his own projectile speed or otherwise has a direct combat speed feat throwing the Gas Passer. This metric knocks him up to 38.28 m/s to 57.15 m/s, which is consistently around 11.1-16.6% of the speed of sound for comparison. On the other hand, Black Noir has very consistent scaling chains to characters like Stormfront who hit speeds slightly over Mach 1. Given he could very explicitly keep up with Homelander in speed, who has moved at speeds around Mach 1.5 in active pursuit (thus explicitly scaling in reactions) as well as hitting speeds of Mach 18.2 to 33.6 at his highest showings, he would at minimum be around Mach 1.5 in speed. This would put the speed gap between the two at around 9.37x in favor of Noir again, or between 113.75-210x times faster with Homie’s higher ends.


Noir does take the cake for both speed and strength by around tenfold at worst, and that’s not with accounting for the potential higher ends you can argue for Noir off of a random Supe like Groundhawk dodging and withstanding lightning, albeit I personally don’t agree with Noir scaling.


Arsenals


While Pyro might be outclassed in strength, he certainly does take an advantage in firepower… literally. He has a wide variety of flamethrowers, flare guns, shotguns, and miscellaneous equipment like the Gas Passer or various melee options that could be immensely powerful. In tandem with a variety of resistances and the potential of generally useful canteens, it is possible his overwhelming arsenal could challenge Noir… but Noir’s demonstrably more reliable bodysuit and equipment make me lean towards him honestly taking this category.


While both resist fire, and Pyro does have the means to set people on fire by covering them in gasoline, Noir’s suit offers him a high heat resistance that would allow him to work through these effects. In tandem with his very high pain tolerance means that Pyro does not really have a method of combat which is that capable. Granted Noir’s suit is bulletproof in certain aspects, likely including his helmet as his armored pieces generally seem to be bulletproof, and have allowed him in turn offered protection against stronger blows, it’s unlikely that Pyro’s melee options or shotgun shells could actually do much to Noir. While a well-paced shotgun shell could end the fight, Pyro very rarely does that tactically, while Noir on the other hand is very intentional on disarming enemies with firearms, granted how he intended doing so in his fight with The Boys. 


His throwing knives are far more reliable in a direct fight against Pyro, and his usage of weapons in close quarters with far more skill and precision gives him a huge advantage when Pyro often relies on brute force in melee combat. With a huge speed and strength advantage in his favor as well as more reliable weapons overall despite having moderately lesser, alongside resistances applicable to the fight, it’s likely he has the right tools to take out Pyro. With this in tandem with his immense stealth and smoke bombs that can even deceive superhumans as well, it’s likely he can get the drop on Pyro way more consistently. While it is true that Pyro does have the means to regenerate damage in the fight, Black Noir’s in turn more lethal fighting style leads to having more reliable ways to end the fight. Even though Pyro can regenerate damage over time, he simply would not be able to regenerate getting his head crushed, gutted with a knife, or getting decapitated. 


All in all, Pyro brings a lot to the table, but Noir simply has more quality weapons that aren’t impeded by Pyro’s resistances and compliment his strengths, while Pyro’s lack of means to consistently get through Noir’s heat resistance that can entirely hold off his flamethrower and general overreliance on strength in other combat situations. This means that, more often than not, Noir actually takes the arsenal category out of sheer resistance thanks to his armor and durability preventing Pyro from doing anything major while he can simply end the fight.


Skills 


As mentioned, Noir’s skill really compliments his fighting style in this fight. While both are very competent fighters, Pyro has a very explicit reliance on brute force in every situation of combat, which becomes very difficult when you pit him against someone stronger and faster than him. Thanks to Pyro not really being able to do much with his main ways of combat, it leaves him way more open to Noir. On the other hand, Noir’s combat style is built around him fighting in tandem with a strength advantage against most opponents, where he often takes out a target before they can even do anything about it. 


Combine this with far more lethal gear on-hand that he can put to use and Pyro explicitly lacking a resistance to melee, and ultimately Noir’s skill advantage is what gives him a huge edge over Pyro in this fight given it is a situation he’s very used to; Pyro is far lesser than Noir in stats and relies on a specific kit that Noir’s suit grants him resistance to alongside sheer durability, giving him the means to withstand anything the pyromaniac mercenary dishes out and then deal a devastating lethal attack to end the fight. 


All in all, Pyro is really good, but Noir is kinda just better. The arsonist has an arsenal that’s really nothing to scoff at, but Black Noir is far more reliable with his, especially when knowing how big his stat advantage is. A protection factor against anything Pyro can throw at him isn’t bad, either. This superpowered ninja was just far beyond the grill, and Pyro couldn’t make the cut: the winner is Black Noir.

Tario

Idk what to write for an introduction so just pretend something cool and/or funny is here.


Stats

Black Noir just has every advantage here. Even with only lower end feats for Black Noir, Pyro's best scaling is the Black Box, which would get him to 0.05 Tons of TNT, which while not too shabby, Noir already outscales this by a mile. Just using Black Noir's most famous feat of Surviving the explosion created by Naqib would only get Black Noir to 0.002 Tons of TNT, so Black Noir would be weaker, right? Not necessarily. The full Yield of Naqibs explosion lands at 0.1 Tons of TNT, so while Black Noir didn’t survive the whole blast, Naqib would have had to endure the entire blast. Black Noir killed Naqib with little to no Issue making him already 2x stronger than Pyro just via that. This would be lowballing Noir though, as scaling to Lamplighter would result in Noir getting to 0.4 Tons of TNT. Noir also scales to Queen Maeve, who survived one of Soldier Boy's explosion worth 1.03 Tons of TNT. If you want to push this you could probably scale Maeve to one of Soldier Boys earlier explosions which would get to 2.2 Tons of TNT. Now this is where my opinion differs from most. I think Noir scaling to Groundhawk is fine and can be used given his status and his better overall showings. Scaling to Groundhawk surviving Nubians Lighting would get Black Noir to 139 Tons of TNT. The only real argument one could make against this is that this is an outlier, i do not think this is the case mainly because Noir should also massively downscale from Homelander. While this sounds weird at first glance most of Homelanders feats were done insanely casually and without any effort, like when he survived that Chemical Plant explosion worth, when accounting for surface area, 43 Tons of TNT. Homelander had to put some small visual effort in when killing Black Noir, meaning he can massively downscale, from statements like Homelander destroying a city which would land Homelander in Low Single digit Kilotons. I'm obviously not saying Noir scales to it fully but with this in mind, I think the Groundhawk scaling is more understandable. Speed is a similar story, except that this is an even bigger gap since Pyro's best feats come from moving in tandem with his own weapons, which would get him 57.15m/s. Noir can scale to Groundhawk dodging lighting for the reasons mentioned above which gets to Mach 637, this again is consistent with downscaling Homelander who has feats far faster. So Black Noir takes stats with a huge margin, no real debate around it in my opinion.


Arsenal, Skill & Experience 

At first glance it would seem like pyro would just sweep this category and we go on. This isn't the case however. While it is true that the Pyro has a wider array of weapons, most of them are completely useless against Black noir due to his suit and his Supe physiology allowing him to shrug off fire based attacks like it's nothing. We see this happen with Naqib, Black Noir resists fire based attacks that are of a much greater yield than Pyros with ease, so no reason he couldn't do the same here. Pyro has weapons that would work against Black Noir like most melee weapons or Shotguns. He also has weaponry that helps him actually land hits and boost his mobility. However I think that Pyro's usual tactics of just burning his opponents to death will not work. On top of this Noir has a sizable advantage in Experience and skill. He has been active for a lot longer and presumably never stopped training. Noir's insane mobility will mean that Pyro is going to have one hard time trying to even hit him, Noir was able to outmanoeuvre faster people after all. In close range Noir should also dominate, hand to hand is his bread and butter. He also isn't completely outmatched in long range. He can quickly close the gap with throwing knives and guns. So while Pyros firepower and arsenal is nothing to scoff at Black Noir does just that, with the means to back it up, winning this category.


All in all Black Noir has the Strength, Speed and experience against similar opponents to where i can say: Pyro wasn't enough to take away Noir’s place as the winner Black Noir was able to sneak right back to the top.


The winner is Black Noir

Omega

Hey everyone, your favorite trans idiot here! As someone who has this MU comfortably amongst my favorite MUs for either series, the news of Valve making a blog covering this MU was one that I had to attend to. It pretty much clicked immediately as soon as I laid eyes on it, and while I do understand the critiques some do make of it, it is regardless an MU that I very much adore, and one I hope happens at some point. This is the first time I’m giving my two cents in a blog like this, so please forgive any errors I make in the following dissection.

Stats

Due the nature of Team Fortress’ stats being especially volatile, it can be a bit hard to find a suitable, all-encompassing argument behind them rising above what their standard arms could give them. While the descriptions of certain weaponry does suggest that they are capable of producing far more damage than what they do in-game, the rather vague nature of these descriptions ultimately leaves their usage as feats up in the air, especially with their fire not exactly atomizing targets as the game claims they do. In addition, with all the other high-end feats either being problematic to scale the mercs toward (Merasmus’ spells and Saxton Hale being… Saxton Hale), fails to work in practice (the nuclear bomb, with the mercs themselves failing to survive the blast outside of a likely oversight with the sentry, and the vague statements surrounding the Yeti), or rely on outside interference (the Heavy tanking the train collision and the Scout’s consumption of Bonk!), it is best that we scale the Pyro only on things that we know for certain they can do, rather than trying to bullshit our way into making them more powerful.


When compared to the traditional weaponry used by the mercs, the Pyro is about on-par with the rest of their comrades. Being able to facetank arms without much difficulty, the Pyro scales best to the Black Box’s explosions (0.05 Tons of TNT at highest), while extending them to the low end of Hale’s raw Australian-ness grants them a higher 0.01 Tons of TNT for his wall burst. While this is notable larger than the 0.002 Tons that Black Noir had to tank when caught in Naqib’s explosion, this was only part of a significantly larger blast that the super-terrorist created, with the full yield of the blast being placed at a solid 0.1 Tons of TNT. With Black Noir being able to resist and subsequently execute Naqib without much trouble, it isn’t unreasonable to suggest that they could confidently take the entire blast if caught in it, and this is merely a minimum upscale. Should one scale them directly to other members of the Seven, Noir being able to stand his own against Queen Maeve makes him scalable to her own survival of one of Solider Boy’s explosions (1.03 Tons at minimum), with Soldier Boy’s other explosions placing them at a maximum of 2.2 Tons. With even lesser heroes such as Lamplighter (0.4 Tons of TNT) and Golden Boy (0.07 Tons of TNT) being able to dwarf anything the mercs can equalize, the Pyro is solidly outmatched when it comes to dealing with raw firepower. While not quite at the pinnacle of his series themselves (considering the Nubian being able to chuck lightning worth 139 Tons and Homelander surviving a 43 Ton-worth chemical explosion), Black Noir should be more durable. 


In addition, speed is of little comfort to the Pyro. Lacking any of the refinement that comes with a healthy(?) dose of Compound V, the Pyro’s best speed feed comes from keeping pace with his own weaponry, with the Dragon’s Fury and the Detonator shooting out their respective projectiles at 57.15 m/s. This, while solid on its own, is mere peanuts when compared to the speeds in which some Supes can fly at directly, with Homelander catching Butcher at Mach 18.2 to rescue Butcher from his own C4-laden vest. When even casual boasts from trained heroes being able to dwarf what the mercenaries can muster (such as Stormfront placing her flight speed at over Mach 1), Black Noir is solidly faster than the Pyro as well.


Even while operating on a different spectrum in regards to attack power, Black Noir’s vastly superior durability and speed has him cruise into taking the Stats category.


Arsenal

At a glance, it at first seems that Pyro is thoroughly in the lead in this category. From the ordinary (enflaming weaponry and shotguns) to the bizarre (shards of volcanic rock, random objects torn from the ground, and literal imagination), the Pyro is able to take their pick when it comes to dispatching and playing with their enemies. However, while this loadout is nothing to scoff at, it ultimately relies on the target being both A) Susceptible to fire and B) Not able to do as much damage at close range. As such, these tools actually leave the Pyro at a disadvantage when it comes to Black Noir’s flame-retardant suit, which we know for a fact can handle far more damage than what Mann-approved weaponry can (without description fumbling) can deal. With Naqib able to solidly outpace what most mercenaries can do on the regular, any inferno the Pyro creates will only slow down their opponent as they make their way towards them, where the Pyro is significantly less efficient. At close range, the suit only serves to create further problems for Pyro, whose sloppy fighting style and close-ranged arms would either leave them open to being disarmed, bounce right off of the suit, or (should they try and use their flamethrowers or explosives) would just result in mild yet notable recoil damage or the Pyro. While this could be helped through the usage of gasoline or a well-placed shotgun blast, the Pyro’s less honed nature ultimately leaves either of these goals tricky to pull off mid-fight.


Black Noir, in comparison, is nowhere near as troubled when faced with the Pyro’s tools. While no stranger to using firearms, Black Noir’s toolkit is primarily designed to close off gaps compared to profiting from them, walling out ranged combatants before going for the kill. For the sake of the Pyro, this comes in the form of his blades and grenades. While the Pyro’s suit is blastproof, fireproof, and somewhat bulletproof, it notably isn’t slashproof, which Black Noir can easily take advantage of. With the grenades providing the cover needed to disable the Pyro’s approach, the Pyro would find their attempts to clash with his honed knives futile, with their clumsy fighting style leaving them at best unable to hit their foe, or at worst, wide open for a well-chucked knife or series of slashes from their short sword.


Despite being significantly less armed, due to their ability to wall out or counter the Pyro’s numerous arms, Black Noir takes the Arsenal category


Skill/Experience


Like with their arsenals, it may at first seem that the Pyro is solidly ahead of Noir in most regards. While clearly unstable, the Pyro is far from being helpless when it comes to strategy, being able to manage their own company to record-breaking profits. However, while highly proficient in buisness, the Pyro’s skills aren’t nearly as helpful when locked into armed combat, where their tactics go from “level-headed calculation” to “burn or shoot anything until it dies”. When your entire world looks like a Lisa Frank drawing, it becomes a bit hard to use the environment around you to predict your opponent’s next move, thus leaving the Pyro susceptible to being toyed with by the environment around them. They may skilled enough to be one of the Manns’ treasured nine, but even with their far stranger opponents, the Pyro’s thuggish fighting style leaves them at a disadvantage when not in an all-out slugfest.


In comparison, as with the rest of the Seven, Black Noir is through-and-through a trained professional. While lacking any of the more dynamic abilities his comrades have, Black Noir’s years of service for Vought has earned them quite the reputation within his team, surviving their occasional shake-ups to emerge as one of their dominant mascots. Through their very design, Black Noir operates through his stealth and reflexes, designed to overwhelm and shut down targets before they have a chance to counter them. Through these proficiency, Black Noir has solidly emerged as one of his team’s strongest, even earning Homelander’s direct praise when compared to the rest of his comrades. Not too shabby, considering he had to handle this while being severly brain damaged!

While the Pyro would be a tough nut to crack due to their sheer unpredictability, their lack of tactical know-how or definitive training leaves their brutality susceptible to being predicted, deceived, and eventually overwhelmed. As such, Black Noir takes Skill/Experience as well.


The Pyro puts up a decent fight, but without the skills, resistances, and sheer strength that the Supes have by default, they can only fan the flames of their inevitable defeat. Black Noir should win this.

Zackplay3r

Ayy, my first time doing one of these! Even though it's far from the first blog I’ve tackled. I’ve been a diehard fan of this matchup ever since I first laid eyes on it and I’m honored to have been able to contribute to this blog. I also got another The Boys related blog on the way in the form of Homelander vs Wesker, an endeavor led by Fenic (Fenic’s Fighting Blogs) I’m happy to assist, so this will be a fun warm up! (pun unintended)


Stats


Stats for Noir’s side of things get very interesting since while upscaling him from Groundhawk, who is basically a nobody alongside the Nubians that are equally nobodies, seems simple enough, it admittedly can come across as outlier-ish since even the other best feats Noir scales to fail to add consistency to justify these higher ends. That’s not to fully disqualify these feats since a strong argument can be made that from a narrative standpoint it's a very logical scaling chain (For example, Groundhawk withstanding the Nubian’s energy output yielding lower than the results of Homelander tanking the chemical plant explosion reaching a general range of 289 - 754 Tons of TNT being narratively consistent seeing as how Noir would still be downright inferior to him albeit arguably only a few pecks below his tier and thus not falling too far behind). But since this blog makes a clear point to emphasize the importance of consistency and with the usage of The Boys shows themselves, I’ll exclude Groundhawk entirely for this section.


As far as durability and attack potency go, both combatants have a plethora of feats to pull from and scale back to. But no matter which way you slice it, Black Noir has a notable edge over Pyro’s own ends; Noir’s arguably most popular feat of tanking Naqib’s explosion clocking in at 0.1 Tons of TNT, and while Noir’s durability only reaches 0.002 Tons of TNT when accounting for square area, the fact that Noir made quick work of Naqib who survived his own explosion makes scaling him to the full yield a safe bet. Other feats such as Golden Boy vaporizing people getting to 0.07 Tons of TNT and Lamplighter being able to vaporize doors reaching 0.04 Tons of TNT corroborate this as Noir should naturally upscale both in sheer power. When throwing Queen Maeve scaling to the equation, the stat gap widens even further, as Queen Maeve withstanding Soldier Boy’s explosion lands at 1.03 Tons of TNT, with other explosions produced by Soldier Boy shown to equate to 2.2 Tons of TNT. While Pyro is a cut above your typical mercenary, he is unable meet Noir on equal footing when comparing physicality, as the best thing he could be scaled to is enduring the Black Box’s capability of turning people to ash clocking in at 0.025 Tons of TNT for what he is able to endure. Even being generous and providing him the Black Box’s full potential landing at 0.05 Tons of TNT, it is still inferior to even the yield of Naqib’s explosion.


In terms of speed, while it is commendable that Pyro can offer real speed feats for TF2 as a whole (outside of Scout, but he is his own league) by actually scaling to his own weapon’s attack speed, the resulting ends from 38.28 m/s to 57.15 m/s pale in comparison to Noir’s capabilities of reacting to Homelander’s own travel speed clocking in at Mach 1.5 at minimum. Should you choose to view Homelander’s desperation in the situation against Black Noir equivalent to him being fully enraged, then his scaling would be hitting up to about Mach 18.2 - 33.6, eclipsing Pyro entirely in speed. On top of that, Noir’s own travel speed is stated to be able to outpace a speeding car, further supporting a greater speed edge, essentially means he’ll always be one upping Pyro in the speed department with no breaks.


Arsenal & Equipment


Pyro has a massive array of weapons at his disposal, each having its benefits and negatives depending on the situation, giving Pyro an endless supply of options that makes him prepared for just about any potential combat encounter you can think of. All in all, I would easily give this category to Pyro…if it wasn’t for the fact that Noir’s suit basically negates Pyro’s entire gimmick of being a pyromaniac. Noir’s resistances to flame and past showings of enduring outputs dwarfing Pyro’s own fire manipulation make it very hard for the merc to capitalize off of a grand majority of his gear. To list off some advantages for the mumbling abomination, canteens provide Pyro the options necessary to contend with Noir and briefly push back against the odds; shotguns and a good chunk of his melee weapons would still be able to put the hurt on Noir, and things like the Detonator and Thermal Thrusters give him a notable mobility advantage, and the old reliable Neon Annihilator and Gas Passer combo would help hm reliably get some major hits in. Despite all this however, I believe these advantages inevitably come up short in the long run.


Noir’s kit by comparison, despite being simples in nature, I believe give him far greater leeway in dealing out reliable damage, as utilities like his knives and grenades compliment his expertise in stealth and close quarters combat, which is especially important against Pyro, whose class’s fighting style prioritizes getting close and personal with your enemies put pressure on them. Much like Pyro, he also has his own ranged options to fall back on, but the bottom line I feel is that Noir’s resistances to a lot of Pyro’s kit circumvent any viable options the merc has, and his greater affinity towards close ranged encounters in conjunction to his tactical approach to one on one fights, makes me lean towards the super in this category.


Skill & Experience


Arguably Pyro’s greatest weakness is his lack of any real strategic approach to fights (not me when I play him though smh) and his tendency to brute force his way through most scenarios, while admittedly badass as shit, is not a helpful mentality when forced to contend with a super ninja. Mixed with his downright sociopathic desire to burn things impeding any real progress he could make on someone that resists his gimmick entirely. To give credit where credit is due, Pyro’s experience with more versatile opponents than Noir and dealings with the supernatural as well as automaton menaces being a step above what Noir typically deals with, a foe with a simple kit might offer him a brief upper hand in the fight should he apply his knowledge of past confrontations against naturally tougher opponents than himself wisely.


Noir by comparison has more consistent showcases of being level-headed and a tendency to tackle missions by applying his combat prowess aptitude with stealth to overcome what seems to be insurmountable odds for your typical super; his survival of Homelander should by all means be credited to his application of his agility and and quick thinking paired with his kit to get the drop on the strongest super the world has seen, and even The Boys are nothing to scoff at as they’ve specialized in preparations against super powered beings and survived encounters no regular person would, yet Noir has showcases to be a formidable threat for even the likes of them through sheer skill and recognizing his own strengths and weaknesses in a fight. Lastly, Noir is someone who we know for certain underwent a great degree of training to transform him into the franchise’s Snake Eyes and has been in the game FAR longer than most heroes, being in two superhero teams and proving competency across the board, providing him superiority in this area as opposed to Pyro’s past being shrouded in mystery being able to pinpoint any notable tidbits of professional training or even what any affiliations before being a mercenary would accumulate to in relevancy to battle. To simplify it, this can be seen as a matter of quality versus quantity; the quantity in this case being Pyro’s experience with a bigger variety of foes, and the quality being Noir’s dexterity and professionalism, and with the latter showcasing these benefits during fights more consistently and more often than the former, I choose to give quality the upper hand here.


Pyro would definitely be a better CEO though, that fact is just undeniable…


In conclusion, despite my overwhelming love for Pyro, his character, and his play style (seriously people stop shitting on people just for playing Pyro), the fact of the matter is that all his advantages fall short when faced with a combatant who has a notable resistance to his gimmick, the stat advantage, and the skill to boot: The winner is Black Noir.


Black Noir (4): valve, Tario, Omega, Zack


Pyro (0): Would win if Zack was playing.


Afterthoughts

Hey guys, Valve here. Black Noir vs Pyro was a huge passion project for those of us working on it, and we’re glad to have finally finished it after the painful 16.5 Before the Verdicts that had to be written for it and the straight 24 hours I myself put into working on it. Not much more to say after finishing, but hopefully you enjoyed reading! We’ll (hopefully) be on a solid enough work basis to release another blog by next month. 

Comments

  1. MacedaaceMay 28, 2025 at 3:55 PM

    I miss your original Pyro vs. Needles Blog, but this is a great replacement.

    ReplyDelete

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